This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?
Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?
What is ' consciousness ' ?
Moderator: Moderators
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #41To the skeptics, the concept of a Universal consciousness is woo. I've since learned that the common ground with the skeptic is to discover fundamental reality. The nature of fundamental reality reveals the nature and origin of the Universe. From my experience of this reality, there is only consciousness. I leave it up to others to discover this if they are willing to experience it.Thomas123 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:21 pm Descartes: Everything is self evident.
Swami:There exists a Universal consciousness and an individual consciousness
Peter: ....kinda like pornography
Thomas: I am ,therefore I think!
All our arguments are ,by necessity, circular in nature....we are thinking a out thinking, or more accurately, we are considering the sensation of being conscious.
The world has a universal consciousness, whether we a cept it or not. Swami is correct. If we accept that we have detected consciousness, we can now consider it's presence and its range a d its dynamic.
Our natural life state on this planet is creating this thing! Can it be channelled or harnessed...is it as fragile as smoke or is it in some way ' collectable'.
What do you think?
-
Thomas123
- Sage
- Posts: 774
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:04 am
- Has thanked: 122 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #42I regard myself as a sceptic, Swami.
I am intrigued by the notion of fundamental reality.
I believe that this space is fundamentally physical in some way.
I would never suggest that you are incorrect as I feel that we are looking at something very strange.
Life continues to create consciousness, it would appear to be evolving and it is part of our task to agitate this process. I agree with you that what we perceive as a definitive is much more likely to be a contrived illusion. We need to maintain a fluidity of approach to progress here because it is very easy to enter the cul de sacs of conventional absolutes.
I am currently exploring the more recent movements in art, ie post impressionism. Abstract expressionism, minimalism. Etc are honest attempts to grabble with fundamental reality, imho.
Go Well, Swami!
I am intrigued by the notion of fundamental reality.
I believe that this space is fundamentally physical in some way.
I would never suggest that you are incorrect as I feel that we are looking at something very strange.
Life continues to create consciousness, it would appear to be evolving and it is part of our task to agitate this process. I agree with you that what we perceive as a definitive is much more likely to be a contrived illusion. We need to maintain a fluidity of approach to progress here because it is very easy to enter the cul de sacs of conventional absolutes.
I am currently exploring the more recent movements in art, ie post impressionism. Abstract expressionism, minimalism. Etc are honest attempts to grabble with fundamental reality, imho.
Go Well, Swami!
-
Thomas123
- Sage
- Posts: 774
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:04 am
- Has thanked: 122 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #43Stop thinking that things are nice/ not nice!
Our consciousness switchboard is wired emotively.
It has paths and memory residues of previous gratification and repulses. It selects, clings to, revisits ,avoids. It is objectively discriminatory. This is our own protective survival kit.
Just remember that the possibility of witnessing fundamental reality seems remote for such a worm!
I welcome.any considerations on this matter.
Our consciousness switchboard is wired emotively.
It has paths and memory residues of previous gratification and repulses. It selects, clings to, revisits ,avoids. It is objectively discriminatory. This is our own protective survival kit.
Just remember that the possibility of witnessing fundamental reality seems remote for such a worm!
I welcome.any considerations on this matter.
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #44[Replying to Thomas123 in post #1]
The consciousness ( the mind ) is connected to the invisible image and voice of our Creator. It is much like an AI system like Google Assistant that can speak.
The consciousness ( the mind ) is connected to the invisible image and voice of our Creator. It is much like an AI system like Google Assistant that can speak.
-
Thomas123
- Sage
- Posts: 774
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:04 am
- Has thanked: 122 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #45I referred to us as worms. They burrow and survive nicely within their own world. We have our own idiosyncratic confinements and like the worms we are oblivious of most of them. Why would this not be true.
Consider our perceptions of the cosmos. Look at space pictures of the landscapes of the moon, of Venus, or Mars. Watch timelapse images of the sun's stormy inferno. Then consider venturing further and the cosmic immensity chases our intellects back down to the earth from which we came.
The whole thing is jawdroppingly incomprehensible.
To venture forward is to create more illusion for ourselves. We need to return to our basic context as a mammalian life form on a cosmic spec of dust that will in time become as lifeless as our neighbouring planets. We had a 'Happy Hour' that we continue to blow on pathetic nonsense!.
It only matters in the context of 'what might have been'
Imagine a worm deciding to get a sun tan by filling dirt into his neighbours hole!
Consider our perceptions of the cosmos. Look at space pictures of the landscapes of the moon, of Venus, or Mars. Watch timelapse images of the sun's stormy inferno. Then consider venturing further and the cosmic immensity chases our intellects back down to the earth from which we came.
The whole thing is jawdroppingly incomprehensible.
To venture forward is to create more illusion for ourselves. We need to return to our basic context as a mammalian life form on a cosmic spec of dust that will in time become as lifeless as our neighbouring planets. We had a 'Happy Hour' that we continue to blow on pathetic nonsense!.
It only matters in the context of 'what might have been'
Imagine a worm deciding to get a sun tan by filling dirt into his neighbours hole!
-
Thomas123
- Sage
- Posts: 774
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:04 am
- Has thanked: 122 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #46Do you remember ' becoming conscious'?
I do not!
It is likely that it did not actually occur as 'a beginning'.
It will probably not end either, as such.
Imagine your relatives!
Are any of them showing symptoms of being 'like you'?
Maybe they exist in a consciousness that is almost identical to your own. Maybe their emotive life is as yours. Maybe it is just the infrastructure and narrative of their experience that creates their separate individuality.
It is unlikely that they will die when you do. It is therefore likely that you will not die at all and it appears certain that you will not notice the end of consciousness ,either.
In this way you can be connected to the stream of all conscious life, past and future. What do you think?
I do not!
It is likely that it did not actually occur as 'a beginning'.
It will probably not end either, as such.
Imagine your relatives!
Are any of them showing symptoms of being 'like you'?
Maybe they exist in a consciousness that is almost identical to your own. Maybe their emotive life is as yours. Maybe it is just the infrastructure and narrative of their experience that creates their separate individuality.
It is unlikely that they will die when you do. It is therefore likely that you will not die at all and it appears certain that you will not notice the end of consciousness ,either.
In this way you can be connected to the stream of all conscious life, past and future. What do you think?
-
Thomas123
- Sage
- Posts: 774
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:04 am
- Has thanked: 122 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #47I have been studying Surrealism in Art lately.
Consciousness is not robust or permanent. It is a brittle kaleidoscope of connected images and sensations that are as fragile as glass and as constant as smoke.
Unfortunately, at least 6 of my extended family and friends are or have been struggling with alzheimers and various nuances of dementia. My Dad died with Luisbodydimentia last year. These people think that they are in the wrong house, they stop recognising their loved ones and replace them with strangers. They endanger themselves with the entrapment of their new surreal consciousness. We need to observe these things when we place consciousness of the life form on a pedestal approaching the divine.
What do you think?
Consciousness is not robust or permanent. It is a brittle kaleidoscope of connected images and sensations that are as fragile as glass and as constant as smoke.
Unfortunately, at least 6 of my extended family and friends are or have been struggling with alzheimers and various nuances of dementia. My Dad died with Luisbodydimentia last year. These people think that they are in the wrong house, they stop recognising their loved ones and replace them with strangers. They endanger themselves with the entrapment of their new surreal consciousness. We need to observe these things when we place consciousness of the life form on a pedestal approaching the divine.
What do you think?
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #48Meditation proves that I can exist without mental input, sensory input, and even without the body. Therefore, I am not the body, my senses, nor even my mind. I am simply the awareness that experiences through these things.
Western science is rooted in cultural bias and that is the only reason many are unwilling to delve into Eastern thought and practices.
Why Materialism is a Dead-End by Bernardo Kastrup
Materialism—the view that nature is fundamentally constituted by matter outside and independent of mind—is a metaphysics, in that it makes statements about what nature essentially is. As such, it is also a theoretical inference: we cannot empirically observe matter outside and independent of mind, for we are forever locked in mind. All we can observe are the contents of perception, which are inherently mental. Even the output of measurement instruments is only accessible to us insofar as it is mentally perceived.
https://iai.tv/articles/why-materialism ... -auid-1271
Western science is rooted in cultural bias and that is the only reason many are unwilling to delve into Eastern thought and practices.
Why Materialism is a Dead-End by Bernardo Kastrup
Materialism—the view that nature is fundamentally constituted by matter outside and independent of mind—is a metaphysics, in that it makes statements about what nature essentially is. As such, it is also a theoretical inference: we cannot empirically observe matter outside and independent of mind, for we are forever locked in mind. All we can observe are the contents of perception, which are inherently mental. Even the output of measurement instruments is only accessible to us insofar as it is mentally perceived.
https://iai.tv/articles/why-materialism ... -auid-1271
-
Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8494
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2146 times
- Been thanked: 2295 times
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #49Give that your body doesn't cease to exist when you meditate, this clearly isn't true. Neither mental input nor sensory input cease either, so that claim is also false. Meditation may be fun for its practitioners, but it doesn't prove the things you claim it does.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
-
Thomas123
- Sage
- Posts: 774
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:04 am
- Has thanked: 122 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?
Post #50I am actually lost on this subject, in that I do not know anything for certain about this existence of ours. I believe that consciousness takes place on a physical ' unconscious' stage, ie the mass of the earth and cosmos together with the nature of space, etc. I am completely mystified by time to a point where I believe that it does not exist. I think that the cosmos is most likely very dark and gloomy and that our visual perceptions have evolved to feed on and embellish this frugal resource ,to the point of creating clarity and beauty.. I do not trust colour as a truth for a reality and see it as an evolved survival code.i do not know whether the world is hot or cold in reality as I survive in such a narrow band of conceivable temperature. Maybe the cosmos is temperature neutral if observed objectively.
Consciousness grows like moss over a physical base ,building up a narrative and a cohesion for itself. The world on earth is unconsciously trying to leave it's body through a process of billions of years of stress and agitation. We are a small component of all this and we assume a unique importance for ourselves which gives us necessary impetus and energy to 'agitate' ourselves onwards.
As I said at the start,....I am lost!
Consciousness grows like moss over a physical base ,building up a narrative and a cohesion for itself. The world on earth is unconsciously trying to leave it's body through a process of billions of years of stress and agitation. We are a small component of all this and we assume a unique importance for ourselves which gives us necessary impetus and energy to 'agitate' ourselves onwards.
As I said at the start,....I am lost!
