Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Miles
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Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

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Post by Miles »

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A bill to allow Christian beliefs to be taught in Arkansas classrooms easily passed the state House Wednesday. House Bill 1701 now heads to the Senate side for a vote.

The bill will allow kindergarten through 12th grade teachers to teach students about the Christian theory of creationism, which claims that a divine being conjured the universe and all things in it in six days. The bill specifies that creationism can be taught not only in religion and philosophy classes, but “as a theory of how the Earth came to exist.”

As with so many pieces of legislation churning out of the Arkansas Capitol this session, if HB 1701 passes, a quick court challenge on this blatant mixing of church and state is all but inevitable. The United States Supreme Court already considered this issue in 1987 and ruled in no uncertain terms that teaching creationism in public school classrooms is unconstitutional. But blatant unconstitutionality hasn’t dissuaded Arkansas lawmakers so far this session. One Senate bill that passed recently, for example, declared all federal gun laws null and void within our state’s borders, in clear opposition to the Supremacy Clause that says federal laws take precedence over state laws.

Rep. Mary Bentley (R-Perryville), sponsor of House Bill 1701 “TO ALLOW CREATIONISM AS A THEORY OF HOW THE EARTH CAME TO EXIST TO BE TAUGHT IN KINDERGARTEN THROUGH GRADE TWELVE CLASSES IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND OPEN–ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS,” said she put forth the bill at the request of science teachers in her district.

“There are phenomena in our nature that evolution cannot explain,” Bentley said. She emphasized that science teachers may teach creationism under this bill, but they don’t have to.
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Stupid beyond belief, but what's your opinion?

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #171

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #169]
There's a third option - the universe has always existed in one form or another.
Except that the universe having always existed doesn't address the question of why it has ever existed.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #172

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to Miles in post #170]
Simply consider the following. I claim "There are fairies and dragons running around my neighborhood at night." Now where does the responsibility of proof Lie? Should the world expect you, EarthScienceguy, to prove fairies and dragons don't run around my neighborhood at night, or me, to prove they do?
What action are you claiming that these fairies and dragons are doing?

I am not simply claiming that there is a God in heaven that does nothing. I am claiming that the God in heaven is performing tasks that cannot be performed any other way. In fact, I am claiming that science points to an intelligent creator.

If your fairies and dragons are creating complex objects at night that have never been created before, then you will have to wonder if there are not faries and dragons running around at night or at least some unseen power.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

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Post by Miles »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:20 pm [Replying to Miles in post #170]
Simply consider the following. I claim "There are fairies and dragons running around my neighborhood at night." Now where does the responsibility of proof Lie? Should the world expect you, EarthScienceguy, to prove fairies and dragons don't run around my neighborhood at night, or me, to prove they do?
What action are you claiming that these fairies and dragons are doing?
I give up! . . . . . . *sigh* . . . . . . . . How about "running around my neighborhood at night."


............... Have a good day.


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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #174

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:05 am [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #169]
There's a third option - the universe has always existed in one form or another.
Except that the universe having always existed doesn't address the question of why it has ever existed.
The why ain't the point.

The point is that the only reliable data we have is there sits the universe. We have many theories and notions and hypothesi, but that's it. We observe the universe as it sits today.

With that in mind, if we wish to propose some god "always existed", and this god "created" the universe, well, that doesn't fit the data we have, which is, there sits the universe. So then, if a "god always existed" argument is introduced, well there we go, the data then better supports "the universe always existed".

Which circles back to...

"Why does this 'creator' god exist?"
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #175

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #174]
The why ain't the point.

The point is that the only reliable data we have is there sits the universe. We have many theories and notions and hypothesi, but that's it. We observe the universe as it sits today.

With that in mind, if we wish to propose some god "always existed", and this god "created" the universe, well, that doesn't fit the data we have, which is, there sits the universe. So then, if a "god always existed" argument is introduced, well there we go, the data then better supports "the universe always existed".

Which circles back to...

"Why does this 'creator' god exist?"
If you have no data on what underlies the existence of the universe, then you don't have all the data.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #176

Post by William »

Athetotheist wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:33 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #174]
The why ain't the point.

The point is that the only reliable data we have is there sits the universe. We have many theories and notions and hypothesi, but that's it. We observe the universe as it sits today.

With that in mind, if we wish to propose some god "always existed", and this god "created" the universe, well, that doesn't fit the data we have, which is, there sits the universe. So then, if a "god always existed" argument is introduced, well there we go, the data then better supports "the universe always existed".

Which circles back to...

"Why does this 'creator' god exist?"
If you have no data on what underlies the existence of the universe, then you don't have all the data.
I think that there is enough evidence to support the idea that there is a mind behind the universe, but even so, it is possible that the mind itself emerged from the universe and therein discovered that it has some ability to shape the universe as it willed.

It is similar to the God-hypothesis and does not exclude the idea that life on earth was designed by said mind, but that life on earth came about much latter on, after the mind itself formed from out of the cosmos and became self aware...and at least that hypothesis supports both the creation by design and the universe possibly being one rendition of an everlasting cycle of renditions...which has always existed in one form or another.

Perhaps the mind always emerges from the universe, whatever rendition of cycle it has gone through...perhaps they are really one and the same thing.

The key ingredient to all this appears to be the thing called 'mind' which appears to be the only thing about the universe which is able to actually acknowledge that the universe exists.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #177

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:33 pm If you have no data on what underlies the existence of the universe, then you don't have all the data.
I see you're well versed in tautological discourse.

Now I gotta ask, what's your point?
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #178

Post by Athetotheist »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:06 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:33 pm If you have no data on what underlies the existence of the universe, then you don't have all the data.
I see you're well versed in tautological discourse.

Now I gotta ask, what's your point?
That was my point.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #179

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:58 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:33 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #174]
The why ain't the point.

The point is that the only reliable data we have is there sits the universe. We have many theories and notions and hypothesi, but that's it. We observe the universe as it sits today.

With that in mind, if we wish to propose some god "always existed", and this god "created" the universe, well, that doesn't fit the data we have, which is, there sits the universe. So then, if a "god always existed" argument is introduced, well there we go, the data then better supports "the universe always existed".

Which circles back to...

"Why does this 'creator' god exist?"
If you have no data on what underlies the existence of the universe, then you don't have all the data.
I think that there is enough evidence to support the idea that there is a mind behind the universe, but even so, it is possible that the mind itself emerged from the universe and therein discovered that it has some ability to shape the universe as it willed.
Please, throw us a few scraps. Inquiring minds want to know.


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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #180

Post by Bradskii »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:27 pm [Replying to Bradskii in post #166]
In passing, there's no such animal as 'atheist cosmology' as our good friend described it. I think he was confusing atheistic with secular. Christians are often confused in that regard
Not confused at all. I stated exactly what I meant.

Can you prove there is not a God in heaven that created the universe?

If you cannot then starting with the premise that there is no God that created the universe means you have an atheistic (disbelieving or
lacking belief
in the existence of God.) cosmology.

There are only two options so either God created the universe or nature created the universe and there is no God. The atheist cosmology is to signify the belief in initial conditions that a theory is putting forward.
As I said, you were confused. Cosmology doesn't require either a belief in God or a disbelief. In that sense it is secular. Cosmology looks to understand the begining of and the evolution of the universe. There are many Christian cosmologists and no doubt a few atheist cosmologists as well. They do the same work - understanding the cosmos. The atheists will think it's entirely natural and needed no God. The Christians will think it couldn't have happened without Him (they're trying to understand how He did it).

Unless of course one is a creationist. In which case that person is going to have some trouble with cognitive dissonance. Good grief, you're not a creationist, are you?

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