Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Miles
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Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

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Post by Miles »

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A bill to allow Christian beliefs to be taught in Arkansas classrooms easily passed the state House Wednesday. House Bill 1701 now heads to the Senate side for a vote.

The bill will allow kindergarten through 12th grade teachers to teach students about the Christian theory of creationism, which claims that a divine being conjured the universe and all things in it in six days. The bill specifies that creationism can be taught not only in religion and philosophy classes, but “as a theory of how the Earth came to exist.”

As with so many pieces of legislation churning out of the Arkansas Capitol this session, if HB 1701 passes, a quick court challenge on this blatant mixing of church and state is all but inevitable. The United States Supreme Court already considered this issue in 1987 and ruled in no uncertain terms that teaching creationism in public school classrooms is unconstitutional. But blatant unconstitutionality hasn’t dissuaded Arkansas lawmakers so far this session. One Senate bill that passed recently, for example, declared all federal gun laws null and void within our state’s borders, in clear opposition to the Supremacy Clause that says federal laws take precedence over state laws.

Rep. Mary Bentley (R-Perryville), sponsor of House Bill 1701 “TO ALLOW CREATIONISM AS A THEORY OF HOW THE EARTH CAME TO EXIST TO BE TAUGHT IN KINDERGARTEN THROUGH GRADE TWELVE CLASSES IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND OPEN–ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS,” said she put forth the bill at the request of science teachers in her district.

“There are phenomena in our nature that evolution cannot explain,” Bentley said. She emphasized that science teachers may teach creationism under this bill, but they don’t have to.
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Stupid beyond belief, but what's your opinion?

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #191

Post by Athetotheist »

Miles wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:00 am
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:56 pm [Replying to Miles in post #185]
as a far as science is concerned the supernatural doesn't even exist.
Science doesn't state that the supernatural doesn't exist; it merely acknowledges that the supernatural lies outside its purview.
If you're implying that science acknowledges the supernatural, but either chooses not to delve into it or cannot do so, you're quite mistaken.


.
Science neither accepts nor rejects the idea of the supernatural. That neutrality helps keep science self-correcting, even when scientists aren't.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #192

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to Miles in post #0]

[Replying to Miles in post #185]
Okay, then present your evidence that "science says that the universe had to be created by a Creator God," because as a far as science is concerned the supernatural doesn't even exist.
1. The laws of physics do describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
a. eternal
b. omnipotent
c. omnipresent
d. existence outside of space and time.
e. past, present, and future all had to be created at the same time.
d. Whatever created the universe either had to be conscious or defy probability.
e. any conscious being that omnipotent and omnipresent Has to be omniscient.

The Bible states that God has all of the above attributes.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #193

Post by Miles »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:42 pm [Replying to Miles in post #0]

[Replying to Miles in post #185]
Okay, then present your evidence that "science says that the universe had to be created by a Creator God," because as a far as science is concerned the supernatural doesn't even exist.
1. The laws of physics do describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
Okay. I'm listening. What characteristics do the laws of physics say a thing has to have to have created the universe? I ask because I'm unaware of any and because obviously you know what they are. . . . . . . Oh yes, what do the laws of physics call this "thing"?


a. eternal
b. omnipotent
c. omnipresent
d. existence outside of space and time.
e. past, present, and future all had to be created at the same time.
d. Whatever created the universe either had to be conscious or defy probability.
e. any conscious being that omnipotent and omnipresent Has to be omniscient.

The Bible states that God has all of the above attributes.
Where? Where does the Bible state that "past, present, and future all had to be created at the same time," AND that this is an attribute of god? AND, where does it state that "any conscious being that omnipotent and omnipresent Has to be omniscient," AND that this is an attribute of god? Chapters and verses will suffice.


Oops, just about forgot. Why does an unconscious creator of the universe defy probability? And just what is the probability that the creator is conscious, and why that number and none other?



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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #194

Post by brunumb »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:42 pm 1. The laws of physics do describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
a. eternal
b. omnipotent
c. omnipresent
d. existence outside of space and time.
e. past, present, and future all had to be created at the same time.
d. Whatever created the universe either had to be conscious or defy probability.
e. any conscious being that omnipotent and omnipresent Has to be omniscient.
Science and the laws of physics say nothing about any of those things. Also, there is no evidence to support the claim that a 'thing or person' created the universe. What you are presenting is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #195

Post by nobspeople »

brunumb wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:45 pm
EarthScienceguy wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:42 pm 1. The laws of physics do describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
a. eternal
b. omnipotent
c. omnipresent
d. existence outside of space and time.
e. past, present, and future all had to be created at the same time.
d. Whatever created the universe either had to be conscious or defy probability.
e. any conscious being that omnipotent and omnipresent Has to be omniscient.
Science and the laws of physics say nothing about any of those things. Also, there is no evidence to support the claim that a 'thing or person' created the universe. What you are presenting is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
I don't disagree with what you're saying. But what I gleamed from EARTHSCIENCEGUY's quoted post was that, the items they listed, is what something or someone would need to possess in order to create, well, everything, based on the laws of physics we currently know. In other words, what we know would mean, if someone or thing was to create everything, it would have to have these characteristics.
That doesn't me (IMO) this thing DOES exist or did any creation of any sort.
Additionally, there are particles that, if discovered and verified, could change physics and its laws as we know it (according to the particle documentary I recently watched, at least). The point here is, we know what we know, but there could be other things we don't know that could sway our ideas in all sorts of ways if discovered. Potentially.

But that's just how I read the post - I could be wrong.
Last edited by nobspeople on Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #196

Post by JoeyKnothead »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:16 am
brunumb wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:45 pm
EarthScienceguy wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:42 pm 1. The laws of physics do describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
a. eternal
b. omnipotent
c. omnipresent
d. existence outside of space and time.
e. past, present, and future all had to be created at the same time.
d. Whatever created the universe either had to be conscious or defy probability.
e. any conscious being that omnipotent and omnipresent Has to be omniscient.
Science and the laws of physics say nothing about any of those things. Also, there is no evidence to support the claim that a 'thing or person' created the universe. What you are presenting is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
I don't disagree with what you're saying. But what I gleamed from EARTHSCIENCEGUY's quoted post was that, the items they listed, is what something or someone would need to possess in order to create, well, everything, based on the laws of physics we currently know. In other words, what we know would mean, if someone of thing was to create everything, it would have to have these characteristics.
That doesn't me (IMO) this thing DOES exist or did any creation of any sort.
Additionally, there are particles that, if discovered and verified, could change physics and its laws as we know it (according to the particle documentary I recently watched, at least). The point here is, we know what we know, but there could be other things we don't know that could sway our ideas in all sorts of ways if discovered. Potentially.

But that's just how I read the post - I could be wrong.
Agreed.

The cool thing about gods is we can attribute to em anything we want.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #197

Post by nobspeople »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:58 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:16 am
brunumb wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:45 pm
EarthScienceguy wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:42 pm 1. The laws of physics do describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
a. eternal
b. omnipotent
c. omnipresent
d. existence outside of space and time.
e. past, present, and future all had to be created at the same time.
d. Whatever created the universe either had to be conscious or defy probability.
e. any conscious being that omnipotent and omnipresent Has to be omniscient.
Science and the laws of physics say nothing about any of those things. Also, there is no evidence to support the claim that a 'thing or person' created the universe. What you are presenting is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
I don't disagree with what you're saying. But what I gleamed from EARTHSCIENCEGUY's quoted post was that, the items they listed, is what something or someone would need to possess in order to create, well, everything, based on the laws of physics we currently know. In other words, what we know would mean, if someone of thing was to create everything, it would have to have these characteristics.
That doesn't me (IMO) this thing DOES exist or did any creation of any sort.
Additionally, there are particles that, if discovered and verified, could change physics and its laws as we know it (according to the particle documentary I recently watched, at least). The point here is, we know what we know, but there could be other things we don't know that could sway our ideas in all sorts of ways if discovered. Potentially.

But that's just how I read the post - I could be wrong.
Agreed.

The cool thing about gods is we can attribute to em anything we want.
That's cool 'n all, but what's REALLY cool is you can say you speak for said god, start a church and take all the sheeple's money! That's something I could get behind - might want to look into it.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #198

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #195]

OK, except that the laws of physics do not describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #199

Post by nobspeople »

brunumb wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:28 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #195]

OK, except that the laws of physics do not describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
That doesn't stop people from assigning these things to a being and 'quoting' physics though :D
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Bill Allowing The Teaching Of Creationism In Public School Science Classes Is Passed In Arkansas House 72-21

Post #200

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to brunumb in post #198]
OK, except that the laws of physics do not describe what characteristics the thing or person which created this universe has to have.
Do you have a reason why you believe the statement above or are you just making a personal statement about your beliefs of the cosmos? Thanks for sharing.

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