The Existence of Ghosts

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What is your view on the existence of ghosts?

I believe ghosts exist and nothing will change my mind.
1
7%
I believe ghosts exist, but I would be willing to change my mind if presented with good evidence to do so.
1
7%
I believe the existence of ghosts can never be shown one way or the other.
1
7%
I believe ghosts do not exist and nothing will change my mind.
1
7%
I believe ghosts do not exist, but I would be willing to change my mind if presented with good evidence to do so.
8
53%
Other (please clarify in the thread).
3
20%
 
Total votes: 15

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The Existence of Ghosts

Post #1

Post by Kylie »

From a discussion in another thread with Purple Knight.

Do you believe in ghosts? Please feel free to add any more information as a post in this thread, such as a story where you encountered something you believe was a ghost, etc.

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #51

Post by Diagoras »

Athetotheist wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:41 amIf "ghosts" are comprised of a type of energy yet to be defined, another "counter-intuitive" principle might eventually be accepted.
Presumably, once adequately defined, we could start some experiments - perhaps to determine the optimum conditions for a dead person to become a ghost through a ‘transfer of energy’. I’m being facetious though - the progress of science towards a Grand Theory of Everything isn’t complete, but the path forward is along certain well-understood lines. It’s very unlikely to suddenly make a right-turn into ‘Spirit Street’.

And remember my mention of others telling me of the door moving on other occasions? Several of them were in the room during my observation of this and saw it along with me (it was in their house). Of course, it will be assumed that I've made up----or "hallucinated"----this detail as well, so there's no point in going any further with it, but again, it wasn't central to my first mention of what I observed.
Wrong. It won’t be assumed that you imagined it. But a hypothesis involving draughts and slightly uneven hinges might be being considered ahead of invisible spirits moving about but only interacting with one specific door.

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #52

Post by nobspeople »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:27 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:55 pmI have many experiences with what some would call 'ghosts'. I've had many experiences with things some would call 'energies'. I don't know what they are, but I've never had an experience with a 'ghost' of someone I know.
I think it's possible, and I believe there are things 'out there' that we don't know about or understand. What they are... :?:
1) Would you be willing to share one of your most compelling ghost experiences here? I don’t have the stats to back me up but someone having ‘many’ such experiences seems notably rare.

2) Also, could you elaborate on what you mean by ‘energies’? Since we’re in the Science forum, it would be appropriate to ask for quite a bit of detail.
I'll do my best. Numbered above for reference:
In a very small nutshell:
2) By energies, I mean what people claim they experience that don't fit into the typical categories of 'ghosts': 'feelings', things seen but not seen with the eye, triggering another 'sense', etc.
I realize these are quite vague and could be explained by natural means at some point (I saw a documentary once where people were in a 'haunted prison' and had a feeling of 'something' there, only to discover water dripping through the ceiling, and the unheard sound (infrasound) of the dripping triggered an internal 'feeling' within people of a sense of being watched, for example). And I'm fine with that - that makes more sense.

1)
I lived in a house where weird things happened. I thought nothing of it until I adopted a dog. The dog would watch 'something' move throughout the house on dozen of occasions to and from different, but consistent locations (many locations in which I'd 'feel' or 'sense' something different; he would look into particular areas of the house, growl, his hackles would raise, then look back at me a whine; he'd be sleeping on my bed, raise up, watch 'something' move around the bed, look back at me a whine); a few times I heard people talking when no one was there, as did my roommate at the time; things would disappear from the house, but not things of value (paper towels, cooked chicken, clothing); I'd lower the washing machine lid only to return to see it raised back up on several occasions without the cycle being ran; I heard someone breathing next to me in my ear; I was physically touched on my head by 'something' in a patting or stroking motion; I saw people walking around in the house on multiple occasions in various period clothing; I watched a pair of legs walk down the hallway (all these 'people' were in spots the dog didn't like).
This was just in this one house.
In another house, I awoke one Saturday morning to a child's sized handprint on the carpet under the coffee table (there were no kids in the house) and over the coarse of a couple hours, it disappeared. Later that afternoon, I went into the garage (attached to the house) only to find the same sized handprint on the hood of the car. In this house, I'd often see shadows running along the ceiling (as did the dog) in the daytime.
In another house, I saw and experienced other things similar, yet different.

I'm fully aware and willing to concede that some (or many) of these things could be my mind playing tricks, misinterpretations, etc. However, when they were verified by the dog, it seemed to lend credence to their authenticity. I'm not saying these things were 'ghosts' (though some seemed to be by many people definition) but they were 'something' weird and, as of yet, unknown.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #53

Post by Athetotheist »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:48 amIt won’t be assumed that you imagined it. But a hypothesis involving draughts and slightly uneven hinges might be being considered ahead of invisible spirits moving about but only interacting with one specific door.
I suggest you re-read my post #9.

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #54

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #54]

Ok, I re-read it.

Could the door have been shut by an air current moving through the house? Perhaps, though it doesn't seem likely
You’re allowing for the possibility of a mundane explanation, yes?

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #55

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #53]

Thanks for posting. The one thing you included, buried within less impressive ‘happenings’ was this:

I saw people walking around in the house on multiple occasions in various period clothing
If I had that experience, I wouldn’t be too worried about some cooked chicken disappearing from a house with a dog in it - I’d be a bit freaked out at having strange people in my house!

Now, I’m not going to attempt an explanation for everything you’ve described - you can see how far the debate’s been going with just two examples. But I’ll ask you to read this short piece linked below and try to give a rough estimate of the proportion of your experiences that couldn’t be explained at all by any of what the article suggests as causes.

https://www.britannica.com/video/160154 ... pparitions

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #56

Post by Athetotheist »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:01 pm [Replying to Athetotheist in post #54]

Ok, I re-read it.

Could the door have been shut by an air current moving through the house? Perhaps, though it doesn't seem likely
You’re allowing for the possibility of a mundane explanation, yes?
Yes, dear----do you want me to leave the nite lite on too?

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #57

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #57]

I’m genuinely puzzled - have I offended you in some way? The tone of your last two posts suggests to me I have, which is not my intention.

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #58

Post by Athetotheist »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:06 pm [Replying to Athetotheist in post #57]

I’m genuinely puzzled - have I offended you in some way? The tone of your last two posts suggests to me I have, which is not my intention.
You just seem to be so deeply bugged by the experience I related. I jumped in on this thread, was invited to go into detail and when I did a couple of posters seemed to feel a need to go into cross-examination mode instead of just letting my contribution be what it was. I chose a catagory in the OP, like we were all invited to do, and it's felt like you've been trying to de-legitimize my participation, like you can't stand that I would fall into that particular group. Does the idea of my experience just possibly being geuine make you that uncomfortable?

If I seem defensive, it's because I'm out of my preferred element. I feel stronger when I'm supporting a theoretical position with arguments I consider logical. Trying to defend a personal experience which I admitted up front I couldn't prove is a more frustrating endeavor. If you've never experienced anything extraordinary, you're lucky in a sense; you've never been placed in the crosshairs of those who will consider you either dishonest, unhinged or pathetically naive.

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #59

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #59]

I'm in no way 'bugged', and the need for cross-examination - as you call it - is likely just due to the nature of this sub-forum. My post #10 and subsequent contributions to the thread were approaching an interesting topic from a scientific perspective: meaning I'm keen to investigate the described phenomena as far as practicable.

If suggesting alternate theories for your experience is 'delegitimising' them, then I suppose I'm guilty. From my perspective though, I believe the possibility of ghosts existing is far lower than the possibility of an unknown mundane explanation, so if we left the issue as 'unresolved - it could be equally ghosts or something else', then I'd feel frustrated too.

I've never experienced anything like what you and nobspeople have described. If I ever did, I suspect my reaction would be to search for the most reasonable natural explanation I could find. That's just how I'm wired. I certainly don't consider anyone to be dishonest here - you're not in any crosshairs.

I feel stronger when I'm supporting a theoretical position with arguments I consider logical.
I can relate to that. I just feel in this case that a stronger, logical argument can be made for the non-existence of ghosts than for their existence. If you wanted to continue on a more logical footing and set aside personal experience, then I'd be happy to keep debating. But if the thread's not been of value to you and you'd rather not keep at it, I'm not pushing.

I can learn from this: I should have made it much clearer earlier on that I wasn't demanding you 'prove' your experience was real. Just to explore its likelihood in a slightly more scientific way, as befits the forum. So, apologies for making you feel uncomfortable.

In the spirit (heh!) of 'opening up', yes - the thought of ghosts being real does make me extremely uncomfortable, as it would fundamentally change my (scientific) worldview. At the same time, perhaps I'd be excited at the possibilities, who knows?

I'll not ask any more questions about personal experience in the thread. Let me know how you'd like to take it from here.

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Re: The Existence of Ghosts

Post #60

Post by nobspeople »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:16 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #53]

Thanks for posting. The one thing you included, buried within less impressive ‘happenings’ was this:

I saw people walking around in the house on multiple occasions in various period clothing
If I had that experience, I wouldn’t be too worried about some cooked chicken disappearing from a house with a dog in it - I’d be a bit freaked out at having strange people in my house!

Now, I’m not going to attempt an explanation for everything you’ve described - you can see how far the debate’s been going with just two examples. But I’ll ask you to read this short piece linked below and try to give a rough estimate of the proportion of your experiences that couldn’t be explained at all by any of what the article suggests as causes.

https://www.britannica.com/video/160154 ... pparitions
Thanks for the link. :D

About the house in question: I was on a shoe-string budget at the time and, being a rental, the landlord never raised the price in the year's I live there. A 3 bedroom house, with a full basement, fenced in yard, 2 car garage for less than $400/mth in a decent area? I could put up with 'weirdness' for that price! :)

While I may have used terms like 'ghosts' and 'feelings' and the like, I'm more than happy to admit there is a more rational reason behind it. If nothing else, the mind is a crazy thing - capable of things that would let some people, a few hundred years ago, go 'crazy'.
I'm not sure if I posted it here or elsewhere, but I watched a documentary once about a haunted prison, where people 'felt watched' and the like while there. Long story short, scientific investigation found water dripping through the ceiling, creating infrasound, which caused people to experience, among other things, the feeling of being watched.
While that may not be the cause in every example of 'being watched', in this case (and I suspect, many others) it's perfectly logical.
In other words, we don't know what we don't know until we know.
Does this mean ghosts don't exist? I wouldn't say that in total as I don't know for sure (no one does). But it does go a long, long way in explaining 'things'.
And, as much 'fun' as it may be to believe in 'ghost' and the like (at least for some) I, for one, welcome any proof to disprove, or prove them. Either way, IMO, it's always better to know.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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