Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

[Wootah]

Assuming the universe was created via the big bang, did the universal constants exist before the big bang or were they created at the same time as the big bang?

[bluegreenearth]

If we could somehow become a conscious particle with our own brain - so small as to witness it as macro to our micro - would we see something similar as we see the universe? Something we could acknowledge as 'the workings of a brain in action'.

That is how I have come to see the universe.

Again, it is a very imaginative proposal, but I fail to detect any meaningful parallels between the structure and composition of my conscious brain and the structure and composition of the entire universe. Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't any parallels, but I have no choice but to remain agnostic about it since the possibility for the claim to be false cannot be tested at this time.

What do you mean by 'remaining agnostic about it'? To me that means one does not know, but one keeps it in mind as a possibility.

That is what I mean by agnostic. I don't know if the universe is conscious or not but understand that it is logically possible.

[William]

If we could somehow become a conscious particle with our own brain - so small as to witness it as macro to our micro - would we see something similar as we see the universe? Something we could acknowledge as 'the workings of a brain in action'.

That is how I have come to see the universe.

Again, it is a very imaginative proposal, but I fail to detect any meaningful parallels between the structure and composition of my conscious brain and the structure and composition of the entire universe. Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't any parallels, but I have no choice but to remain agnostic about it since the possibility for the claim to be false cannot be tested at this time.

What do you mean by 'remaining agnostic about it'? To me that means one does not know, but one keeps it in mind as a possibility.

That is what I mean by agnostic. I don't know if the universe is conscious or not but understand that it is logically possible.

I too consider it in that way.

If as an agnostic I take it further, [in the only direction it can be taken further] and find at least subjective supporting evidence for that possibility, is that different than "remaining agnostic about it"?

[bluegreenearth]

I too consider it in that way.

If as an agnostic I take it further, [in the only direction it can be taken further] and find at least subjective supporting evidence for that possibility, is that different than "remaining agnostic about it"?

Interesting question. It seems to me that the acceptance of subjective evidence as support for the claim would imply you are leaning towards belief in the claim even if you don't know it is true. So, in that sense, wouldn't that make you an agnostic deist/theist/panentheist (presuming you categorize the conscious universe as a type of god)?

[William]

I too consider it in that way.

If as an agnostic I take it further, [in the only direction it can be taken further] and find at least subjective supporting evidence for that possibility, is that different than "remaining agnostic about it"?

Interesting question. It seems to me that the acceptance of subjective evidence as support for the claim would imply you are leaning towards belief in the claim even if you don't know it is true. So, in that sense, wouldn't that make you an agnostic deist/theist/panentheist (presuming you categorize the conscious universe as a type of god)?

Yes - that is how I see it.

Only I call the position "Agnostic-Theist" rather than further dissecting it into 'what type of theist am I?" at least while the Agnostic aspect remains influential. I don't know, and am not convinced it is necessary to know.

[thomasdixon]

Our search for life on another planet needs to look for a light source that did not come from a sun.
Humans produce light unlike the sun—

freeway car lights.jpg

If you can find a light source with this wavelength, you have found what we have been looking for----

[thomasdixon]

city lights.png

[Miles]

Our search for life on another planet needs to look for a light source that did not come from a sun.
Humans produce light unlike the sun—

freeway car lights.jpg
If you can find a light source with this wavelength, you have found what we have been looking for----

Really!

FYI

"What is the light spectrum of the sun?

"The spectrum starts with red light, with a wavelength of 700 nanometers (7,000 angstroms), at the top. ... It spans the range of visible light colors, including orange and yellow and green, and ends at the bottom with blue and violet colors with a wavelength of 400 nm (4,000 angstroms)."
source

Think car lights don't fall within that spectrum?


.

[brunumb]

[Replying to Miles in post #47]

Not to mention that the amount of light produced is negligible compared with that from any sun.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to Miles in post #47]

The spectrum starts with red light, with a wavelength of 700 nanometers (7,000 angstroms), at the top. ... It spans the range of visible light colors, including orange and yellow and green, and ends at the bottom with blue and violet colors with a wavelength of 400 nm (4,000 angstroms).

Being a spectroscopist by trade I have to nitpick and point out that this description is only of the visible (to the human eye) spectrum of the sun. The solar spectrum extends deeper into the UV and the IR on either side of the visible spectrum:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... ectrum.png

As to thomasdixon's comments in post 45, the universe is awash with photons covering the the entire electromagnetic spectrum from gamma rays to radio waves. The light generated by humans is just a subset of what is already out there ... we haven't created any photons that mother nature hasn't.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Assuming the universe was created via the big bang, did the universal constants exist before the big bang or were they created at the same time as the big bang?

No, the term "universe" has a scope that includes all matter, energy, fields, laws, everything we deal with in scientific inquiry. So before any of that existed none of that existed.