Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

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Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

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Post by Wootah »

Assuming the universe was created via the big bang, did the universal constants exist before the big bang or were they created at the same time as the big bang?
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

Post #91

Post by William »

[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #90]
The answer to the problem about how anything material came to exist clearly must start with nothing material existing, that has to be the starting point and since science can only be invoked when something already exists it cannot be applied to this problem.

This is so simple a child could understand it - a thing cannot explain its own presence.
I had argument with a Christian fairly recently and he believed that the universe was created from nothing [ex nihilo/out of nothing] and maintained he was right because "God" can 'do all things', including creating the whole material universe - not from immaterial but from no material whatsoever. Like magic!

At the time, his argument was similar to the materialist argument re 'Big Bang' where everything in the universe derived from something infinitesimal, which itself derived from nowhere/an unknown place.
More magic.

That is when I began to seriously realize that many Christians are really just materialists calling themselves Christians...perhaps to get the best of both 'worlds' - the fat of this land and the fat of the next...

My argument was that everything exists within the mind of "God" and that reality experiences were created from something rather than nothing - the something being whatever it is that constitutes said mind...material from immaterial....

By thinking realities into existence - the act of will, creating that which is willed.

We ourselves are capable of doing the same re our micro-position within that which was willed into existence...and actually - as can be seen - the universe appears to be in the process of becoming something, rather than being something which is identifiable as being complete...

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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

Post #92

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

William wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:43 am [Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #90]
The answer to the problem about how anything material came to exist clearly must start with nothing material existing, that has to be the starting point and since science can only be invoked when something already exists it cannot be applied to this problem.

This is so simple a child could understand it - a thing cannot explain its own presence.
I had argument with a Christian fairly recently and he believed that the universe was created from nothing [ex nihilo/out of nothing] and maintained he was right because "God" can 'do all things', including creating the whole material universe - not from immaterial but from no material whatsoever. Like magic!

At the time, his argument was similar to the materialist argument re 'Big Bang' where everything in the universe derived from something infinitesimal, which itself derived from nowhere/an unknown place.
More magic.

That is when I began to seriously realize that many Christians are really just materialists calling themselves Christians...perhaps to get the best of both 'worlds' - the fat of this land and the fat of the next...

My argument was that everything exists within the mind of "God" and that reality experiences were created from something rather than nothing - the something being whatever it is that constitutes said mind...material from immaterial....

By thinking realities into existence - the act of will, creating that which is willed.

We ourselves are capable of doing the same re our micro-position within that which was willed into existence...and actually - as can be seen - the universe appears to be in the process of becoming something, rather than being something which is identifiable as being complete...
Language itself makes it hard to even discuss this kind of thing.

Questions like "How did God create the universe" and so on are perhaps impossible to answer when our understanding of "how" is what it is, mechanistic.

It's profound, deeply mysterious.
When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

Post #93

Post by William »

[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #92]
Language itself makes it hard to even discuss this kind of thing.
I think it is not the case of language itself being a problem, but rather, the way language is used which causes the limitations.
Questions like "How did God create the universe" and so on are perhaps impossible to answer when our understanding of "how" is what it is, mechanistic.
The mechanism only describes the creation. We are still left with the knowledge that what we refer to as 'material' appears real/physical but we can also comprehend that perhaps it isn't really as it appears - as in - we exist within a reality experience [simulated reality] which has been created upon [in] the 'mind-screen' of a conscious creative being.
It's profound, deeply mysterious.
Words which appear to convey something as impossible to fathom - an unanswerable problem.

I prefer to exhaust all possible explanations before conceding that the existence of this universe must have to remain in the realm of mystery.

[or said another way; "When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."]

Otherwise I may as well abandon theism and embrace materialism.

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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

Post #94

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

William wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:01 pm [Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #92]
Language itself makes it hard to even discuss this kind of thing.
I think it is not the case of language itself being a problem, but rather, the way language is used which causes the limitations.
I think Wittgenstein would have given you an argument on that point!
When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

Post #95

Post by William »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:20 pm
William wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:01 pm [Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #92]
Language itself makes it hard to even discuss this kind of thing.
I think it is not the case of language itself being a problem, but rather, the way language is used which causes the limitations.
I think Wittgenstein would have given you an argument on that point!
Presently I am content to continue discussing it with Sherlock...unless you are bowing out?

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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

Post #96

Post by William »

Or...lets face it - language is sound encoded and this is directly linked to the idea that sound is what created this reality experience...as in "God Said" re the biblical tale...and what are tales but organization of sounds?

We cannot escape the use of language [sound] and the limitations of language did not prevent Wittgenstein from using it [in written form] to convey his insights and opinions about the subject.

Things being discussed and things being disgust. The interesting phenomena of phonetics.

Furthermore the phenomena of being able to organize the encoded sounds into groups - for example;
Each line below of encoded sound has its own meaning and are also able to be grouped through a simple code [A=1...Z=26]
It May Seem Insignificant
Intuitive Intelligence
What Is Our Purpose?
The Wisdom of Foresight
The Limitation of Language


These lines can then be said to have something in common with one another...

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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?

Post #97

Post by William »

Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
I see the theory of something infinitesimal which contained the unfolding reality we call 'the universe' and refer to as 'reality' to be analogous to a seed.

With every seed, there are constants that exist before the germination of said seed.

The 'big bang' is the seed germinating.

The constants are therefore the program [instructions] within that which exploded [germinated] and is currently growing [time/space expansion] into the reality known as the universe.

It is logical therefore to understand that the product [unfolding reality/universe] is the result of the 'universal constants' which existed prior to the germination [explosion] of the seed [infinitesimal prior state].

[33] [algorithm]
Magic
Find
Seed


[112]
Three Three
Mathematics
Imagination
Unknown
Potential
Semiotics [the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation.]




Part of the constants within the seed are - of course - human form and language - which is why everything can be reduced to mathematics because mathematics is a coded/decoding device.


[125]
Human Language
Glad You Asked
William’s Job
Support
Puzzles

[279]

The Universal Constants
Consciousness Incarnates
Thoughts Are Products Of...
Better the devil you know

[365]
Everything can be reduced to mathematics
Is life on earth being lived as it should be?
You Are Allowed To Laugh You Know


Seriously? :D


[281]
Mathematics is a coded/decoding device
Light Encoded Reality Matrix
Collective Consciousness


Clearly the evidence points to coding, which is what the thread heading question is really asking...so the answer is "Yes".

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