Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
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- Wootah
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Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #1Assuming the universe was created via the big bang, did the universal constants exist before the big bang or were they created at the same time as the big bang?
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #41That is what I mean by agnostic. I don't know if the universe is conscious or not but understand that it is logically possible.William wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:57 amWhat do you mean by 'remaining agnostic about it'? To me that means one does not know, but one keeps it in mind as a possibility.bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:12 amAgain, it is a very imaginative proposal, but I fail to detect any meaningful parallels between the structure and composition of my conscious brain and the structure and composition of the entire universe. Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't any parallels, but I have no choice but to remain agnostic about it since the possibility for the claim to be false cannot be tested at this time.William wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:33 pm If we could somehow become a conscious particle with our own brain - so small as to witness it as macro to our micro - would we see something similar as we see the universe? Something we could acknowledge as 'the workings of a brain in action'.
That is how I have come to see the universe.
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #42I too consider it in that way.bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:09 amThat is what I mean by agnostic. I don't know if the universe is conscious or not but understand that it is logically possible.William wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:57 amWhat do you mean by 'remaining agnostic about it'? To me that means one does not know, but one keeps it in mind as a possibility.bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:12 amAgain, it is a very imaginative proposal, but I fail to detect any meaningful parallels between the structure and composition of my conscious brain and the structure and composition of the entire universe. Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't any parallels, but I have no choice but to remain agnostic about it since the possibility for the claim to be false cannot be tested at this time.William wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:33 pm If we could somehow become a conscious particle with our own brain - so small as to witness it as macro to our micro - would we see something similar as we see the universe? Something we could acknowledge as 'the workings of a brain in action'.
That is how I have come to see the universe.
If as an agnostic I take it further, [in the only direction it can be taken further] and find at least subjective supporting evidence for that possibility, is that different than "remaining agnostic about it"?
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #43Interesting question. It seems to me that the acceptance of subjective evidence as support for the claim would imply you are leaning towards belief in the claim even if you don't know it is true. So, in that sense, wouldn't that make you an agnostic deist/theist/panentheist (presuming you categorize the conscious universe as a type of god)?
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #44Yes - that is how I see it.bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:29 amInteresting question. It seems to me that the acceptance of subjective evidence as support for the claim would imply you are leaning towards belief in the claim even if you don't know it is true. So, in that sense, wouldn't that make you an agnostic deist/theist/panentheist (presuming you categorize the conscious universe as a type of god)?
Only I call the position "Agnostic-Theist" rather than further dissecting it into 'what type of theist am I?" at least while the Agnostic aspect remains influential. I don't know, and am not convinced it is necessary to know.
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #45Our search for life on another planet needs to look for a light source that did not come from a sun.
Humans produce light unlike the sun—
If you can find a light source with this wavelength, you have found what we have been looking for----
Humans produce light unlike the sun—
If you can find a light source with this wavelength, you have found what we have been looking for----
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #47Really!thomasdixon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:26 pm Our search for life on another planet needs to look for a light source that did not come from a sun.
Humans produce light unlike the sun—
freeway car lights.jpg
If you can find a light source with this wavelength, you have found what we have been looking for----
FYI
"What is the light spectrum of the sun?
"The spectrum starts with red light, with a wavelength of 700 nanometers (7,000 angstroms), at the top. ... It spans the range of visible light colors, including orange and yellow and green, and ends at the bottom with blue and violet colors with a wavelength of 400 nm (4,000 angstroms)."
source
"The spectrum starts with red light, with a wavelength of 700 nanometers (7,000 angstroms), at the top. ... It spans the range of visible light colors, including orange and yellow and green, and ends at the bottom with blue and violet colors with a wavelength of 400 nm (4,000 angstroms)."
source
Think car lights don't fall within that spectrum?
.
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #48[Replying to Miles in post #47]
Not to mention that the amount of light produced is negligible compared with that from any sun.
Not to mention that the amount of light produced is negligible compared with that from any sun.
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #49[Replying to Miles in post #47]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... ectrum.png
As to thomasdixon's comments in post 45, the universe is awash with photons covering the the entire electromagnetic spectrum from gamma rays to radio waves. The light generated by humans is just a subset of what is already out there ... we haven't created any photons that mother nature hasn't.
Being a spectroscopist by trade I have to nitpick and point out that this description is only of the visible (to the human eye) spectrum of the sun. The solar spectrum extends deeper into the UV and the IR on either side of the visible spectrum:The spectrum starts with red light, with a wavelength of 700 nanometers (7,000 angstroms), at the top. ... It spans the range of visible light colors, including orange and yellow and green, and ends at the bottom with blue and violet colors with a wavelength of 400 nm (4,000 angstroms).
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... ectrum.png
As to thomasdixon's comments in post 45, the universe is awash with photons covering the the entire electromagnetic spectrum from gamma rays to radio waves. The light generated by humans is just a subset of what is already out there ... we haven't created any photons that mother nature hasn't.
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Re: Did the universal constants exist before the big bang?
Post #50No, the term "universe" has a scope that includes all matter, energy, fields, laws, everything we deal with in scientific inquiry. So before any of that existed none of that existed.