The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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William
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The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #1

Post by William »

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Can silence actually drive someone crazy??



If anything, sound is more likely to drive one crazy, than silence.

A personality will use their brains to fill the silence with the sound of their inner voice and these sounds can translate to pictures [visions aka hallucinations] on the mind screen.

If silence could make someone crazy, how is it that this does not occur to deaf people?

Perhaps there is other stimuli [visual] which the personality can focus on.

Observation:

In the above video, the Silence Room is also made completely dark.

The only sound made is whatever the persons body produces. Non-sound still heard by the personality as sound, is accomplished through the internal voice of [which is largely of] the personality [subject] itself.

Deaf people might experience that inner voice more through the visual aspect of the 'inner voice' re "a picture paints a thousand words" and words being 'sounds'.
Blind people, the other way around.

Just as blind folk can feel objects which in turn gives them "pictures" of the object in their mind, perhaps deaf people can 'hear' through the vibrations that things produce, and create "sounds" in their minds through that process?

We can see that sound produces order from chaos.

The Evidence:

Sample One:


Sample Two:



A Theist Claim:

"We exist within a Creation and The Creator used Sound to create and maintain the Universe."

The Evidence:

Sample One:

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." ~ Genesis 1:3

Sample Two:



Conclusion:
FOR DEBATE:

Q: Does Sound Create The Universe.

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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #31

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to William in post #30]
You would not claim that sound didn't exist before the human ear existed, would you?
Yes (although I would say "animal ears" since not only humans have ears) because sound is a perception created by a brain from processing of electrical signals that are ultimately produced from a pressure wave travelling through a medium like air and reaching an ear. If the proverbial tree falls in the forest it certainly generates a pressure wave, but if this pressure wave never reaches the ear of an animal it will never be "heard."

I suppose it comes down to the semantics of the word "sound." It is used in physics to refer to acoustic waves in general (eg. the speed of sound in air and water), but I think most people interpret the word as relating to the perception created by a brain in response to a pressure wave hitting the ear within a frequency range that the ear is responsive to (eg. ~20 - 20,000 Hz in humans).

It seems you are referring to a much more general meaning describing vibrations/waves/oscillations at any frequencies and amplitudes and in any medium ... including a vacuum (which would include electromagnetic waves but exclude acoustic waves). Describing vibrations in quantum fields (producing forces and particles) as "sound" seems a stretch on the definition of the word (to me anyway).
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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #32

Post by William »

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #31]
It seems you are referring to a much more general meaning describing vibrations/waves/oscillations at any frequencies and amplitudes and in any medium ... including a vacuum (which would include electromagnetic waves but exclude acoustic waves). Describing vibrations in quantum fields (producing forces and particles) as "sound" seems a stretch on the definition of the word (to me anyway).
As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is not the best use of science to restrict "sound" only to what can be heard by biological lifeforms on this one planet.

If the tree falls in the forest, there will be evidence that sound must have occurred, which is the point I was making about the evidence that sound must have something to do with the formation of Galaxies.

That biological ears do not hear said sound, does not force us to conclude that no sound is happening, as the evidence suggest that sound is the likely reason things - including light - form in this universe.

As I also mentioned in a prior post, I am happy to examine ideas regarding other phenomena which can explain why Galaxies form.

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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #33

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to William in post #32]
That biological ears do not hear said sound, does not force us to conclude that no sound is happening ...
It is a minor point, but I was contrasting the difference between a pressure wave traveling through air, and the result of that pressure wave entering an ear to produce the perception of sound by the brain. You seem to be referring to the pressure wave itself as "sound", rather than sound being the perception created by the brain as a result of this pressure wave (with the ear system converting the pressure wave to electrical signals that the brain then uses to create the perception of sound).

So it is just semantics ... I think of the pressure wave as a generic wave that could have all kinds of sources (falling trees or otherwise) and effects (eg. breaking wine glasses via resonance), while sound is the specific manifestation of the pressure wave and ear/brain system acting together to create a perception. Waves/vibrations/oscillations are far more general ... "sound" is just a tiny subset of what they can produce.
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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #34

Post by William »

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #33]
That biological ears do not hear said sound, does not force us to conclude that no sound is happening, as the evidence suggest that sound is the likely reason things - including light - form in this universe.
It is a minor point, but I was contrasting the difference between a pressure wave traveling through air, and the result of that pressure wave entering an ear to produce the perception of sound by the brain. You seem to be referring to the pressure wave itself as "sound", rather than sound being the perception created by the brain as a result of this pressure wave (with the ear system converting the pressure wave to electrical signals that the brain then uses to create the perception of sound).
I am not arguing that the minor point is besides the point.
I accept the idea that what we call 'sound' is really just an interpretation of the vibration that is entering the brains awareness through the ear cannel.

If we can agree as true, that 'sound' really doesn't exist but is the ear system converting the pressure wave to electrical signals that the brain then uses to create the perception of sound, this in itself does not throw away the idea that what we think of as "sound" is what is going on in the formation of the Galaxies.

And in that, circling back to the theist claim that we exist within a creation and that the creation itself was called into existence by the "sound' of The Creators Voice", the concept can be understood in that way as "not literally a voice with vocal chords able to produce such a thing," but "vibrations which can only be associated [at this time] - with the properties that we understand as being 'of sound'."

It is also why the OP mentions that - perhaps deaf people can 'hear' through the vibrations that things produce, and create "sounds" in their minds through that process.

We can also acknowledge the same about how the eye-brain works, and we are left with having to admit that we have enough evidence altogether to agree that our brains are translating the incoming evidence as accurately as a mirror image, so what we are 'seeing' and 'hearing' is true enough knowledge.

The problem of disagreement gets down to how that true knowledge is interpreted. The brain has done its part. The individual consciousness is that which interprets what the brain reflects to it.

Which is why the OP does not mention the theist claims as to the true nature of The Creator, because something that awesome simply cannot be understood in It's fulness, by the Human Being.
The best we have to go by on that front, is the evidence of nature itself. Can we assume that it is a true reflection of The Creators own Nature?

IF:

The Universe is a creation manifested through 'sound' which was brought into existence by The Creators own will;

THEN:

Can we rely on the examination of information of said creation to give us accurate data on the likely nature of said Creator?

Certainly we can at least rely on that information being more accurate than religious supernatural claims about the nature of The Creator [aka the many different "creators" which religion and culture offer us through the theist channels.]

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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #35

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to William in post #34]

Just some questions for you William:
How does a pressure wave propagate in the absence of matter?
How does The Creator speak and why does it even have a voice?
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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #36

Post by William »

brunumb wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:48 pm [Replying to William in post #34]

Just some questions for you William:
How does a pressure wave propagate in the absence of matter?
That is not the correct question to be asking brunumb.
This because, the thread topic [See OP] isn't saying waves associated with 'sound' are propagated through matter, but that they are the cause of matter forming in the first place.
Any residual waves created through that process coming directly from matter interacting with matter, are secondary waves...

That is why, at our level of awareness in the mix of it all, we are able to exist within it and experience that existence as we do.
In the sense that things obviously calmed down sufficiently for that to be made possible.
How does The Creator speak and why does it even have a voice?
The theory the OP goes with is that all that we experience as the Universe, is happening inside the mind of The Creator, and therefore the 'voice' the Creator 'speaks with' is an internal voice, which creates what The Creator wills, by projecting that will onto the screen of The Creators Mind and that screen is what we call 'space' and 'The Quantum Field'.

From The OP:
A personality will use their brains to fill the silence with the sound of their inner voice and these sounds can translate to pictures [visions aka hallucinations] on the mind screen.
I mention the 'inner voice' as something most folk 'hear' as 'sound'. Actual sound making apparatus is not necessary in order for this 'hearing' and subsequent 'imaging' to occur.

Relating that to the Mind of a Creator, if such a mind Created the Universe, it may have been originally based in consciousness alone, without form or apparent function, and eventually hallucinating what we call "reality", into existence...because thought has to 'go somewhere' and does so through the vibration said thought produces upon the screen of said Mind.

Someone kept within the Silence Room [video 1 of OP] for long enough, will eventually loose all memory of the reality that they are in the Silence Room, as their mind fills in the gaps and creates realities for them to experience as a means of doing something with the consciousness they have/are.

When we 'will' something, this involves language and from that, imagery. While this of course happens internally and therefore we [each of us who can do so] are subjective witnesses to the fact that we 'hear' our inner 'voice' and from that, create said images, we understand it as a real process.

The sound The Creator made, can be understood in that same way, and explains what 'in the image of' means, re Humans.
We have the same ability to create things in our mind [ideas] which one would expect in a Universe which shows us that frequencies and patterns are involved in how things are formed. Everything in the universe, is a micro to its macro.

What we call 'reality' may well be something which exists in the mind of [a] God.

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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #37

Post by brunumb »

William wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:26 pm This because, the thread topic [See OP] isn't saying waves associated with 'sound' are propagated through matter, but that they are the cause of matter forming in the first place.
In that case I don't regard them as sound waves. I also don't regard inner voices as sound. It all seems to be stretching the notion of sound way too far to try and fit it into some sort of creation scenario. The Silence Room is more than just silent, it is also dark, so the effect on the human mind is not so simple to pinpoint. To sum up, I'm not buying any of it. I will leave it there. Good luck with your hypothesis.
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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #38

Post by William »

brunumb wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:50 am
William wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:26 pm This because, the thread topic [See OP] isn't saying waves associated with 'sound' are propagated through matter, but that they are the cause of matter forming in the first place.
In that case I don't regard them as sound waves.


What do you regard them as, if not sound waves, since they have the attributes of sound waves?

What other phenomena would you attribute them as being?
I also don't regard inner voices as sound.
Again, what do you regard them as?

When your inner voice speaks, and you hear the words spoken, what phenomena is involved in allowing this to happen?
What causes those words to form images on the screen of your mind?
It all seems to be stretching the notion of sound way too far to try and fit it into some sort of creation scenario.
This is not the intent of the OP. The OP is simply pointing out that the bible tells us that Sound was used to create the universe, and that there is evidence in the universe which supports this idea.
In Christian mythology, the words "God said "let there be light"" is taken in the literal sense that you are protesting - that God has an actual voice-box and when he speaks, this brings about creation from nothing.
In Judaism - specifically Mysticism, this idea is that it was the will of The Creator that represents the sound made which produced form. In other words - God thought things into existence and the very act of thinking produced the vibrations which made physical things.
The Silence Room is more than just silent, it is also dark, so the effect on the human mind is not so simple to pinpoint.
We know enough about the human mind that when deprived of external stimulation, it will eventually create its own internal reality which can consciously be experienced by the participant.
This shows us that the mind is incapable of just accepting darkness and silence and will generate its own light and sound, which is what the OP is theorizing regarding why this universe exists as it currently does.
To sum up, I'm not buying any of it.
Which is to say, you cannot debunk it, but because it supports the idea of the Universe being created, and thus implies a Mind behind that, you will not accept it as something which should be on the table.
I will leave it there. Good luck with your hypothesis.
Okay. Cheers.

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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #39

Post by brunumb »

William wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:25 am Which is to say, you cannot debunk it, but because it supports the idea of the Universe being created, and thus implies a Mind behind that, you will not accept it as something which should be on the table.
No. It's because you have redefined sound and fudged it in order to fit your grand hypothesis.
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Re: The Effect of Sound and The Universe

Post #40

Post by William »

brunumb wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:01 pm
William wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:25 am Which is to say, you cannot debunk it, but because it supports the idea of the Universe being created, and thus implies a Mind behind that, you will not accept it as something which should be on the table.
No. It's because you have redefined sound and fudged it in order to fit your grand hypothesis.
I don't buy that.

I redefined no thing. It was suggested that another phenomena might explain why Galaxies exist as they do, and when I asked what phenomena that would be, I was meet with silence.

Sound is the best explanation for the formation of Galaxies, given the evidence.

Some want to argue that technically sound only applies to how biological creatures 'hear' and doesn't really happen re 'everywhere else'.
That this process itself is still interpreted by brains, after the fact...[the same applies to light] arguing 'the brain does it' is merely a convenient way of backing away from examining the hypothesis with an open mind.

I even mentioned how Judaic Mysticism understands their own scripture differently to how Christians tell it, and that they think of 'the voice of God' to being the same thing as the will of God in action...so it is not about me 'fudging' anything to suit any agenda you think I have.

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