Absurdity of the universe without a creator

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EarthScienceguy
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Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #1

Post by EarthScienceguy »

How is the universe not absurd (or possible) without a creator in light of the following?

1. The universe without a creator breaks the law of conservation of mass and energy.

The question that needs to be answered: Where did all of the energy come from? I am using space and energy as synonymous terms because energy comes from space.

2. The universe without a creator breaks the second law of thermodynamics.

The question that needs to be answered is: Why we are individuals and not a Boltzmann brain?

3. The universe without a creator breaks all laws of probability.

The question that needs to be answered is: Why do the constants of nature have the values that they do? Or why do we have laws of nature?

There are more but we will stop at three.

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #71

Post by thomasdixon »

brunumb wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:35 pmYou could have a point there. We have an old book which is an anthology of fanciful tales about God and his machinations which is pretty unconvincing, particularly when the source is allegedly an intelligence vastly superior to any human scientist.
Genesis was first put to print in 1611BC, that was 3,632 years ago.
Now put yourself in that time frame. A time before the oceans and the American continent had been discovered. Does the information stated below seem a bit out of place for that time frame--?
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”
7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.
8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.
10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.
12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,
15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth,
18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”
23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

The timeline above has been scientifically proven to be true, life did “evolve” as stated. And this evolving process was put to print in 1611 BC or 3,632 years ago. Columbus sailed the ocean blue 529 years ago.
It is clear to me that the authors of Geneses had some help and it wasn’t from some bird tweeting to them from some window sill.
Genesis was first put to print in 1611BC, that was 3,632 years ago.
8-)

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #72

Post by William »

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #71]
Genesis was first put to print in 1611BC
QQS: When was the book of Genesis first written?
Scholars have identified three literary traditions in Genesis, as in Deuteronomy, usually identified as the Yahwist, Elohist, and Priestly strains. The Yahwist strain, so called because it used the name Yahweh (Jehovah) for God, is a Judaean rendition of the sacred story, perhaps written as early as 950 bce.

QQS: When was the book of Genesis first printed?


There appears to be too much conflicting hypothesis for anyone to make any accurate call.

IF;
By "first put to print" you are meaning, "first written down"
THEN;
the answer isn't really known, but clearly the idea that Genesis was first put to print in 1611BC is not correct.

QQS: Was there printing available in 1611 BC?
The University of Canterbury is privileged to have in its possession two copies of the early KJB. One is dated to 1611 and part of the first print run. The second, a revision - but still an extraordinary work - was printed in 1613.


These date of course are AD rather than BC - 410 years ago - Columbus' ship had already sailed... 119 years previously.

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #73

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #71]

Genesis was first put to print in 1611BC, that was 3,632 years ago.


I don't know when Genesis was first penned or orally described, but nothing else in your post that was bolded has been "scientifically proven to be true." Just the opposite. They are all quotes from Genesis with references to a god seeing that "it was good" as the only support.

What science has proven is that the universe (or the Earth and its living creatures), was not "created" in just 6 days, or that man was created in the image of any god but rather evolved from earlier members of our genus Homo. The time frame is some 4.5 billion years from Earth's formation to the appearance of human beings ... nearly 6 orders of magnitude longer than the Genesis description using a biblical chronology "creation" date of some 6000 years ago.

Science is completely at odds with the Genesis creation story and the two cannot be reconciled without a great deal of creative license in interpreting the words of Genesis (eg. days weren't really a full diurnal cycle due to Earth's rotation about its axis, but some arbitrary time frame suiting the interpreter despite the seemingly unambiguous description in Genesis that one evening and one morning constitute a day).
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #74

Post by thomasdixon »

DrNoGods wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:15 pm [Replying to thomasdixon in post #71]

Genesis was first put to print in 1611BC, that was 3,632 years ago.


I don't know when Genesis was first penned or orally described, but nothing else in your post that was bolded has been "scientifically proven to be true." Just the opposite. They are all quotes from Genesis with references to a god seeing that "it was good" as the only support.
I was just pointing that those verses were written 3,632 years ago. In those days people believed the earth was flat.
8-)

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #75

Post by William »

thomasdixon wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:09 pm
DrNoGods wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:15 pm [Replying to thomasdixon in post #71]

Genesis was first put to print in 1611BC, that was 3,632 years ago.


I don't know when Genesis was first penned or orally described, but nothing else in your post that was bolded has been "scientifically proven to be true." Just the opposite. They are all quotes from Genesis with references to a god seeing that "it was good" as the only support.
I was just pointing that those verses were written 3,632 years ago. In those days people believed the earth was flat.
8-)
It is more likely the stories [variations thereof] were told around fireplaces long before they were written down as formal "this is how it happened" versions.

The fluidity of fireside yarns allows for fiction to have its place in the real world, as long as we do not confuse the fiction for facts.

Writing said stories down as if they were fact, sets things in stone and results in real confusion at best, and real war at worst.

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #76

Post by brunumb »

thomasdixon wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:24 am The timeline above has been scientifically proven to be true, life did “evolve” as stated.
Science has actually discovered that the scenario and timeline in genesis is complete and utter nonsense. One has to view the evidence without the distorting lenses of bible-glasses.

By the way, is this what you say science has proven?

Image
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #77

Post by thomasdixon »

brunumb wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:05 pmScience has actually discovered that the scenario and timeline in genesis is complete and utter nonsense. One has to view the evidence without the distorting lenses of bible-glasses. By the way, is this what you say science has proven?
Yada, yada, yada.
Oh, wise one, tell me what part of Genesis Isn’t true?
8-)

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #78

Post by thomasdixon »

brunumb wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:05 pmYour “ANCIENT ISRAELITE COSMOLOGY” is just MYTHOLOGE. Nothing more, nothing lees.
In short, garbage.
8-)

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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #79

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #77]
... tell me what part of Genesis Isn’t true?
Three obvious examples are the Creation story, Noah's flood, and the many reports of human beings living for hundreds of years. These are all demonstrably untrue.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
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Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator

Post #80

Post by brunumb »

thomasdixon wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:27 am Your “ANCIENT ISRAELITE COSMOLOGY” is just MYTHOLOGE. Nothing more, nothing lees.
In short, garbage.
8-)
Since that cosmology essentially conforms with Genesis, I agree with you completely.
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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