Often when debating atheism or questioning the evolution doctrine, the supporters of evolution will reject arguments against it made by scientists because they insist that only "peer reviewed" publications are to be trusted (else it must be pseudo science).
So I want to ask how does one decide whether a journal is or is not peer reviewed? what definition do people use to help them make this decision?
What is peer review?
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #201If you feel there's a post that forms part of a legitimate conversation that I had with you and that I did not respond to or did not respond satisfactorily then simply bring it to my attention, link to said post.Jose Fly wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:28 pmWould you like me to back them up? It's not at all difficult to pull up the posts you know.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:11 pm More baseless accusations, is this really the best you can throw at me?
Nope, never said that at all. You claimed to have studied genetics; all I did was ask what you studied, which you not only refused to answer, you got extremely defensive about (which is very revealing).If you believe that because you might have a greater knowledge of - say - genetics than I do, then every time we disagree on some aspect of genetics you will invariably be right and I will invariably be wrong, then please just state that, is that what you believe? Yes or No ???
See, when creationists claim that I've not studied creationism and I tell them that I actually have studied it quite a bit, I list the creationist books I've read, the creationist websites I read, etc. I don't run to "I don't have to answer to you".
This is why creationism can't win in courts or science. In both of those arenas you can't get away with repeatedly dodging questions without consequence. Oh sure you can do that all day in internet forums and all that'll happen is a loss of credibility. But pull that crap in court or in a science setting and things will be quite different.If you want to hide behind qualifications or academic book lists then do so, but it won't help you in a real debate, not with me, I've dealt with such trickery many times.
So if you want to get this back on topic, you can start by addressing one or more of the following: 1) your assertion that evolution has been falsified (i.e., explain how), 2) the papers on pre-Cambrian to Cambrian transitional fossils that Barbarian posted, 3) the papers on speciation I posted, 4) the info on functional redundancy and cytochrome C Barbarian posted, and 5) what specific aspect of genetics you've studied (e.g., molecular, population, other).
Anything less and we're right back to where we are now.
If you feel I said something with which you take issue then quote the exact words that I wrote, you continue to paraphrase me when complaining about my posts, surely as a scientist yourself you can see the huge scope for misunderstanding when one takes such an undisciplined approach?
If this is not to your liking then I'm afraid I really can't help you, these are the expectations I have when debating anything with others, in this and every other forum.
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #202That's really interesting. The only person I think of as a "creationist leader" that I've interacted with was Bill Dembski when he made his rather brief appearance at an old ID forum. It didn't last very long though. He would make claims about what scientists hadn't investigated (or weren't investigating) and we'd reply by posting links to papers showing scientists investigating those very things. Eventually he just accused us of "hurling elephants" and left. Not exactly a good look for him.The Barbarian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:37 pm Actually, I've had some very good relationships with a number of YE creationist leaders. Thomas Woodward was kind enough to send me a signed copy of Doubts About Darwin; he apparently considered our online debates at the C.S.Lewis Society website in that book. John Woodmorappe, author of Noah's Ark; a Feasibility Study, spent some time in email with me, clarifying his ideas from that book. Many creationists are honest and decent people, and some of them do take a great deal of time reading scientific literature for more than just quote-mining.
Unfortunately, many of the most prominent creationists don't fit that description.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #203Okay, tell ya' what....let's hit the reset button.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:31 am If you feel there's a post that forms part of a legitimate conversation that I had with you and that I did not respond to or did not respond satisfactorily then simply bring it to my attention, link to said post.
If you feel I said something with which you take issue then quote the exact words that I wrote, you continue to paraphrase me when complaining about my posts, surely as a scientist yourself you can see the huge scope for misunderstanding when one takes such an undisciplined approach?
If this is not to your liking then I'm afraid I really can't help you, these are the expectations I have when debating anything with others, in this and every other forum.
Let's start by establishing common ground. Do you agree that evolutionary mechanisms have been observed to generate new traits, abilities, genetic sequences, and species?
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.
Re: What is peer review?
Post #204Start a new thread, present your thesis and lets see what happens, this one - I'm as guilty as anyone - came off the rails many days ago.Jose Fly wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:01 pmOkay, tell ya' what....let's hit the reset button.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:31 am If you feel there's a post that forms part of a legitimate conversation that I had with you and that I did not respond to or did not respond satisfactorily then simply bring it to my attention, link to said post.
If you feel I said something with which you take issue then quote the exact words that I wrote, you continue to paraphrase me when complaining about my posts, surely as a scientist yourself you can see the huge scope for misunderstanding when one takes such an undisciplined approach?
If this is not to your liking then I'm afraid I really can't help you, these are the expectations I have when debating anything with others, in this and every other forum.
Let's start by establishing common ground. Do you agree that evolutionary mechanisms have been observed to generate new traits, abilities, genetic sequences, and species?
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #205Will do.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:22 pmStart a new thread, present your thesis and lets see what happens, this one - I'm as guilty as anyone - came off the rails many days ago.Jose Fly wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:01 pmOkay, tell ya' what....let's hit the reset button.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:31 am If you feel there's a post that forms part of a legitimate conversation that I had with you and that I did not respond to or did not respond satisfactorily then simply bring it to my attention, link to said post.
If you feel I said something with which you take issue then quote the exact words that I wrote, you continue to paraphrase me when complaining about my posts, surely as a scientist yourself you can see the huge scope for misunderstanding when one takes such an undisciplined approach?
If this is not to your liking then I'm afraid I really can't help you, these are the expectations I have when debating anything with others, in this and every other forum.
Let's start by establishing common ground. Do you agree that evolutionary mechanisms have been observed to generate new traits, abilities, genetic sequences, and species?
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #206Dembski has a reputation for having a bit of a short fuse. Heard that before. On one forum a participant was touting the ideas of an Australian creationist (Jonathan Sarfati). I critiqued his ideas in a fairly dispassionate way, and got a rather intemperate response. Apparently, the participant actually was Sarfati.Jose Fly wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:54 pmThat's really interesting. The only person I think of as a "creationist leader" that I've interacted with was Bill Dembski when he made his rather brief appearance at an old ID forum. It didn't last very long though. He would make claims about what scientists hadn't investigated (or weren't investigating) and we'd reply by posting links to papers showing scientists investigating those very things. Eventually he just accused us of "hurling elephants" and left. Not exactly a good look for him.The Barbarian wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:37 pm Actually, I've had some very good relationships with a number of YE creationist leaders. Thomas Woodward was kind enough to send me a signed copy of Doubts About Darwin; he apparently considered our online debates at the C.S.Lewis Society website in that book. John Woodmorappe, author of Noah's Ark; a Feasibility Study, spent some time in email with me, clarifying his ideas from that book. Many creationists are honest and decent people, and some of them do take a great deal of time reading scientific literature for more than just quote-mining.
Unfortunately, many of the most prominent creationists don't fit that description.
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #207Calling himself "Socrates," I presume? Ah, the good old days.The Barbarian wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:46 pmOn one forum a participant was touting the ideas of an Australian creationist (Jonathan Sarfati). I critiqued his ideas in a fairly dispassionate way, and got a rather intemperate response. Apparently, the participant actually was Sarfati.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #208Yes. He started calling me "the lupine one." So I began to refer to him as "the musteline one." Which was fine until he looked it up.Difflugia wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:53 pmCalling himself "Socrates," I presume? Ah, the good old days.The Barbarian wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:46 pmOn one forum a participant was touting the ideas of an Australian creationist (Jonathan Sarfati). I critiqued his ideas in a fairly dispassionate way, and got a rather intemperate response. Apparently, the participant actually was Sarfati.
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #209Mustelids're cool. I reread my Grzimeks a lot, and passed by that section again back in January.The Barbarian wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:14 am Yes. He started calling me "the lupine one." So I began to refer to him as "the musteline one." Which was fine until he looked it up.
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Re: What is peer review?
Post #210A well earned reputation for sure.The Barbarian wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:46 pm Dembski has a reputation for having a bit of a short fuse. Heard that before.
Lol....you pushed his buttons apparently!On one forum a participant was touting the ideas of an Australian creationist (Jonathan Sarfati). I critiqued his ideas in a fairly dispassionate way, and got a rather intemperate response. Apparently, the participant actually was Sarfati.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.