What is peer review?

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Sherlock Holmes

What is peer review?

Post #1

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Often when debating atheism or questioning the evolution doctrine, the supporters of evolution will reject arguments against it made by scientists because they insist that only "peer reviewed" publications are to be trusted (else it must be pseudo science).

So I want to ask how does one decide whether a journal is or is not peer reviewed? what definition do people use to help them make this decision?

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Jose Fly
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Re: What is peer review?

Post #2

Post by Jose Fly »

Lots of publications are peer-reviewed, but not all of them are peer-reviewed scientific publications. In order to be a scientific publication you have to adhere to scientific standards. Creationists can't meet those standards so they start their own publications where things like invoking miracles from the gods and automatically rejecting anything that disagrees with the Bible are allowed.

If creationists could meet the standards of scientific journals, they would. They can't, so they go off and start their own. The good thing is, no one really pays attention to creationist publications. They're about as relevant to real world science as flat-earthers' publications.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: What is peer review?

Post #3

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:00 pm Lots of publications are peer-reviewed, but not all of them are peer-reviewed scientific publications. In order to be a scientific publication you have to adhere to scientific standards. Creationists can't meet those standards so they start their own publications where things like invoking miracles from the gods and automatically rejecting anything that disagrees with the Bible are allowed.
This is pure prejudice, the accusation that a person who's a creationist cannot also be a scientist, this is a form of religious discrimination, evaluating the efficacy of scientific arguments on the basis of the religious view of the authors.

I wonder what your employer's HR department would make of these prejudicial views, you do know it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion?
Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:00 pm If creationists could meet the standards of scientific journals, they would. They can't, so they go off and start their own. The good thing is, no one really pays attention to creationist publications. They're about as relevant to real world science as flat-earthers' publications.
This is nonsense, take James Tour for example, a creationist yet also a prolific source of scientific papers in many established journals, a member of the AAAS etc.

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Jose Fly
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Re: What is peer review?

Post #4

Post by Jose Fly »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:19 pm
Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:00 pm Lots of publications are peer-reviewed, but not all of them are peer-reviewed scientific publications. In order to be a scientific publication you have to adhere to scientific standards. Creationists can't meet those standards so they start their own publications where things like invoking miracles from the gods and automatically rejecting anything that disagrees with the Bible are allowed.
This is pure prejudice, the accusation that a person who's a creationist cannot also be a scientist, this is a form of religious discrimination, evaluating the efficacy of scientific arguments on the basis of the religious view of the authors.
Except I never said that. Your reading comprehension issues are noted.
I wonder what your employer's HR department would make of these prejudicial views, you do know it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion?
Again, you're just revealing your ignorance of the very topic you're attempting to debate. When I presented my peers with the notion of dedicating meeting time to prayer and funding to prayer groups, every one of them replied that they would report me if I even suggested doing that. Interestingly, the strongest reactions were from my Christian colleagues.
This is nonsense, take James Tour for example, a creationist yet also a prolific source of scientific papers in many established journals, a member of the AAAS etc.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said anything about creationists not being able to be scientists. The topic is supposed to be about publications, remember?
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: What is peer review?

Post #5

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:36 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:19 pm
Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:00 pm Lots of publications are peer-reviewed, but not all of them are peer-reviewed scientific publications. In order to be a scientific publication you have to adhere to scientific standards. Creationists can't meet those standards so they start their own publications where things like invoking miracles from the gods and automatically rejecting anything that disagrees with the Bible are allowed.
This is pure prejudice, the accusation that a person who's a creationist cannot also be a scientist, this is a form of religious discrimination, evaluating the efficacy of scientific arguments on the basis of the religious view of the authors.
Except I never said that. Your reading comprehension issues are noted.
I wonder what your employer's HR department would make of these prejudicial views, you do know it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of religion?
Again, you're just revealing your ignorance of the very topic you're attempting to debate. When I presented my peers with the notion of dedicating meeting time to prayer and funding to prayer groups, every one of them replied that they would report me if I even suggested doing that. Interestingly, the strongest reactions were from my Christian colleagues.
This is nonsense, take James Tour for example, a creationist yet also a prolific source of scientific papers in many established journals, a member of the AAAS etc.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said anything about creationists not being able to be scientists. The topic is supposed to be about publications, remember?
You wrote (emphasis mine):
Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:00 pmCreationists can't meet those standards
That's a blanket condemnation of the competence of scientists who are also creationists simply because they are creationists, my reading comprehension is trustworthy.

This is prejudice as would be "Jews can't meet those standards" or "African American can't meet those standards" - you did not say these but what you did say is just as discriminatory in its implications.

I doubt any real colleagues know of your posts, if they do they should be concerned about your attitudes, your impartially is in doubt.

Finally do you or do you not know how to answer the question how does one decide whether a journal is or is not peer reviewed? what definition do people use to help them make this decision?

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Re: What is peer review?

Post #6

Post by Jose Fly »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:42 pm You wrote:
Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:00 pmCreationists can't meet those standards
That's a blanket condemnation of the competence of scientists who are also creationists simply because they are creationists, my reading comprehension is trustworthy.
Um....it's reality. Why else do you think creationists had to start their own journals with their own standards? Why didn't they just publish in already-existing journals like the PNAS or Nature?

The answer is obvious....they had to start their own journals because their articles on creationism don't meet the actual scientific journals' standards. That's why young-earth creationists like Snelling, Austin, and Wise have published papers in scientific journals on secular subjects, but when it comes to creationism they publish then in religious journals.
I doubt any real colleagues know of your posts, if they do they should be concerned about your attitudes.
I don't care what you think on any science matter.
Finally do you or do you not know how to answer the question how does one decide whether a journal is or is not peer reviewed? what definition do people use to help them make this decision?
Again, work on your reading comprehension. To repeat from my first post: "Lots of publications are peer-reviewed, but not all of them are peer-reviewed scientific publications. In order to be a scientific publication you have to adhere to scientific standards."

Creationist publications are journals. They are peer-reviewed. They are not scientific.
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Re: What is peer review?

Post #7

Post by Miles »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: how does one decide whether a journal is or is not peer reviewed?
HERE is the process.

However, some journals are well established as publishing peer-reviewed articles and need no vetting. For example:

The Journal of American Medicine (JAMA)
The Journal of Reviews on Global Economics
The Journal of Sports Science and Medicine


The following is an example of peer reviewing.

Image
source


As is evident, peer reviewing can be quite detailed with suggestions on how to improve an article so as to make it acceptable for publication. Note, not all submissions make it through the process and are accepted.

what definition do people use to help them make this decision?
They don't. The process of peer-reviewal differs among disciplines, but essentially it's a reviewal by one's peers: true experts in a relevant field. For instance, biologists don't consider physicists to be their peers, so they don't submit their work to physics journals, but to journals of biology where their peers reside.

Of course, if a discipline is considered a pseudoscience no amount of peer-reviewing by fellow pseudoscientists is going to be meaningful, at least to science and those who recognize pseudoscience for what it is. However, if, for instance, creationists believe their article in support of creationism can pass muster in a peer-review scientific journal then that's where they should apply. To date, none that I know of has ever been accepted. However, creationists have set up a peer review journal or two where their pseudoscience articles can get accepted, reviewed, and published. All of which is worth a chuckle or two.


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Last edited by Miles on Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: What is peer review?

Post #8

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:54 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:42 pm You wrote:
Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:00 pmCreationists can't meet those standards
That's a blanket condemnation of the competence of scientists who are also creationists simply because they are creationists, my reading comprehension is trustworthy.
Um....it's reality. Why else do you think creationists had to start their own journals with their own standards? Why didn't they just publish in already-existing journals like the PNAS or Nature?
Non creationists start their own journals all the time Jose. Besides why some journal was founded is something we'd need to ask the founders not just make up in our own head, and that's true of all journals no matter their target audience, did you ask in this case? or did you rely on pre-conceived personal prejudices?

The fact is you are on record as being openly discriminatory toward any scientist who believes God created the universe, this could get you into trouble one day particularly if you have influence over other employees' performance ratings, salaries, promotions etc, this is the USA we have laws against such behavior.

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Re: What is peer review?

Post #9

Post by Jose Fly »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:06 pm Non creationists start their own journals all the time Jose.
Yep, never said otherwise. American Atheists started a journal for publication of material on atheism, which is a religious topic. Creationists start their own journals for the publication of material on creationism, which is also a religious topic.

Not sure what part of "religious journals aren't science journals" is confusing you.
Besides why some journal was founded is something we'd need to ask the founders, and that's true of all journals no matter their target audience, did you ask in this case? or did you rely on pre-conceived personal prejudices?
Again you exhibit reading comprehension issues. The founding isn't the issue here; it's the subject matter and the standards.

Religion is not science.
The fact is you are on record as being openly discriminatory toward any scientist who believes God created the universe, this could get you into trouble one day.
Only to someone who has significant reading comprehension issues.
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: What is peer review?

Post #10

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Jose Fly wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:12 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:06 pm Non creationists start their own journals all the time Jose.
Yep, never said otherwise. American Atheists started a journal for publication of material on atheism, which is a religious topic. Creationists start their own journals for the publication of material on creationism, which is also a religious topic.

Not sure what part of "religious journals aren't science journals" is confusing you.
Besides why some journal was founded is something we'd need to ask the founders, and that's true of all journals no matter their target audience, did you ask in this case? or did you rely on pre-conceived personal prejudices?
Again you exhibit reading comprehension issues. The founding isn't the issue here; it's the subject matter and the standards.

Religion is not science.
The fact is you are on record as being openly discriminatory toward any scientist who believes God created the universe, this could get you into trouble one day.
Only to someone who has significant reading comprehension issues.
You say "religion is not science" yet seem to forget this fact when you also say "Creationists can't meet those standards" that is you conflating a person's religious beliefs with their ability to perform their job, blatant discrimination, seriously you should setup a meeting with your company's HR department and ask them, print out this thread and ask them their opinion, I'd love to be a Fly on the wall...

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