A 6 Day Creation

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 961 here:

There is now more evidence than ever before about 6-day creation.

For debate:

Please offer evidence for a literal six day creation of the Universe.

Please remember that in this section of the site the Bible is not considered authoritative.

[Eloi]

[Replying to Eloi in post #353]

Nobody invented anything, as atheists and enemies of the Bible often say.

James Ussher used biblical chronology to arrive at a specific date for "creation" around 4004 BC, and others have arrived at similar time frames. But we know with 100% certainty that the Earth (and universe) is far older than this by orders of magnitude. How do you square the actual age of the Earth with biblical chronology, which produces such a wildly incorrect date for "creation."

The creation story of Genesis and all the begats, etc. are not descriptions of real, historical events or the histories of real people. The 900+ year ages, Noah's flood, etc. are clearly just stories passed down from whoever invented them to begin with. We can say it was indeed all invented because of the scientific impossibility of these things being actually true. Good stories for the time they were developed, but clearly they are not literally true.

What you say is just an opinion based only in prejudices about the Bible, and you do not have any evidence for that. What evidence do you have that someone made up the global Flood story? You have no evidence for that.

You also cannot prove that all the stories in different cultures do not come from the same original story recorded in the past, when a family survived the catastrophe and the earth was repopulated with their descendants. It is more than reasonable to think that this was the origin of all the ancient stories about the flood.

Furthermore, hundreds of ancient stories and myths from different cultures and religions have much more in common than just a Flood, for example, many of them speak of a previous golden age that men lost, of gods/spirits with different interests, of a serpent that communicates with humans, of gods/spirits that visit the earth, etc. The Bible explains many of these coincidences more realistically than those ancient religious stories do. The point is: why so many coincidences if each story is supposed to have its own inventor? Did the ancients have so little imagination, or did they really have the same ancestors?

As you may know, I am a Jehovah's Witness, and for the umpteenth time I clarify that we do not believe that creative days are 24 hours long, although the total period is divided into 6 stages called "day". This topic is not questioning the length of those creative "days", but whether the planet was "terraformed" and the life on it created in the 6 biblical stages or not.

[Clownboat]

Where did they take the concept from, from what reference,

Well, a man later given the title Shaman likely invented many of the god concept ideas. Where do you propose all the available god concepts came from?

if they had just stopped being animals (according to the evolutionists)?

Now you have lost me. What are you talking about? Humans are animals if you were not aware.

Do you think a baby can invent the idea of a Creator?

Is a 5 year old a baby? If so, then yes, I think a baby could invent the idea of a Creator. I think men invented the available god concepts though. How about you?

Do you think any animal can create such a concept?

No, a certain level of inteligence would be needed. Surely you agree with me, yet you ask the question anyway. Why is that?

The Bible says that God, the Creator, had direct communication with the first couple and with some specific humans.

Having read the Bible and having been a born again, spirit filled drunk in the Holy Ghost Christian for 2 decades, I am familiar with this claim that comes from a book written by mostly unknown humans.
Can you show that any of the available creator gods had direct communication with any first couples of humans, whatever that even means? Your idol, the Bible is not evidence, it is only a religious book that makes claims. I will not worship the Bible nor make an idol of it myself, but I'm open to any external evidence you have.

That is in the Bible, but many modern persons claim to have communication with spirits, and the history is full of similar examples and certain spiritual experiences ... not that they are all reliable, but surely some will have been based on realities (this is a diferent topic).

What we do know is that humans make all sorts of claims. Some humans are more gullible then others and will believe unevidence claims, especially if they are offerered virgins or eternal life. Which are you after?

[Eloi]

Nowadays, there are still many very well educated people and university students and teachers who visit shamans, healers, readers of cards and hands, etc. to get cured, know their future or their past, conspire against their enemies, get protection, etc. When they leave there they come to the forum to make fun of the believers.

[Clownboat]

So you think you are closely related to a flatworm, why?

Please copy and paste where you got this idea from. This should be good.

Thanks for pointing out that some psychology today is so far gone that it deals in fable based mind picking.

Your total and utter fail at dealing with the contents of the article has been noted.

All evolution was happened to created creatures, and the evolving and adapting that went on in the distant past (if we believe Scripture) was at a very very fast rate compared with what is observed today.

Please show that you speak the truth in this regard because it seems you are simply pointing to a religious holy book as if it was some idol or authority.
Think about this for a minute, how impressed would you be if I quoted from the Quran?

There is no science that shows creation of life was due to the ability God gave living creatures to adapt and change.

Of course not, that would be stupid.
First there would need to be life, then evolution could happen. You truly seem lost about your understanding of evolution and how it is different then abiogenisis. Could you imagine debating the Bible with someone that thought a snake got Eve pregnant in the garden and a god needed its limbs in order to do so? Just look at the evidence! Why else would snakes not have legs!

You should learn that what you debate against, but not if your goal is to maintain your religious beliefs. Then, don't learn about evolution.

[Clownboat]

Nowadays, there are still many very well educated people and university students and teachers who visit shamans, healers, readers of cards and hands, etc. to get cured, know their future or their past, conspire against their enemies, get protection, etc. When they leave there they come to the forum to make fun of the believers.

Fail. What you claim is not a requirement.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. - Socrates

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to Eloi in post #361]

What you say is just an opinion based only in prejudices about the Bible, and you do not have any evidence for that. What evidence do you have that someone made up the global Flood story? You have no evidence for that.

No ... it is a conclusion based on comparing the stories of the biblical (Noah's) flood with the implications of such an event in the real world. If such an event had happened as described in the bible, the evidence for it would be overwhelming, yet there is none. This event can be approximately dated using the same biblical chronology Ussher used to come up with a date for "creation", and that places it at about 4400 years ago (AIG put it at 2348 BC).

There is no source for that much water to begin with ... not even close ... and there were complete civilizations that would have been wiped out yet there is no historical record of this or evidence in population genetics that such a thing happened. And there are many other scientific reasons to discard Noah's flood as anything but another ancient flood myth that never actually happened. Local flooding sure, but a global flood with water reaching the tops of the highest mountains ... zero probability that that has ever happened since humans have lived on this planet.

It isn't any prejudice against the bible ... just science applied to the story to show that it could not possibly have happened as described. It is clearly a myth similar to prior flood myths.

As you may know, I am a Jehovah's Witness, and for the umpteenth time I clarify that we do not believe that creative days are 24 hours long, although the total period is divided into 6 stages called "day"

This is just another interpretation of the Genesis text that other religions do not accept. One problem with all of the different religions that think the bible is a valid holy book is that they don't all interpret these fundamental issues the same. The KJV text says this (Genesis 1:5):

"God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day."

Of all the interpretations of Genesis 1:5 on this page:

https://biblehub.com/genesis/1-5.htm

which one indicates that a day was not an approximate 24 hour period? Some religions allow for a "day" to be centuries, millennia, or even undefined. If this creation myth were actually legitimate you'd think everyone who believes it would at least agree on the time frame of the events, but the interpretations are wildly different (each particular belief system claiming, of course, that only their interpretation is correct).

The creation story, Noah's flood, people living to 900+ years, is just storytelling.

[Eloi]

There are a lot of evidences for the Flood. Scientists place them much earlier in time and give them different interpretations. The same evidences they use for the last ice age works very well for the Biblical Flood; they just have to check the datation they give.

PD: We, Jehovah's Witnesses, have studied biblical chronology in detail, and place the Flood in 2370 B.C.E.

[Jose Fly]

There are a lot of evidences for the Flood. Scientists place them much earlier in time and give them different interpretations. The same evidences they use for the last ice age works very well for the Biblical Flood; they just have to check the datation they give.

Among the rules for this forum: 5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence.

So let's see the evidence for your assertions.

[Eloi]

Some evidence of the Flood:

1) the narratives of contemporaries (the Bible)
2) the accounts of different ancient cultures which coincide in different aspects with the biblical story
3) the remains of marine animals on high mountains
4) the disappearance of whole ancient civilizations of which nothing remained but rest of constructions on the terrain
5) the existence of completely submerged city constructions
6) the common origin of all languages
7) the common origin of all human races
8) the similarity of beliefs in different religious cultures of antiquity
9) erosion caused by water in many parts of the planet

[Sherlock Holmes]

Some evidence of the Flood:

1) the narratives of contemporaries (the Bible)
2) the accounts of different ancient cultures which coincide in different aspects with the biblical story
3) the remains of marine animals on high mountains
4) the disappearance of whole ancient civilizations of which nothing remained but rest of constructions on the terrain
5) the existence of completely submerged city constructions
6) the common origin of all languages
7) the common origin of all human races
8) the similarity of beliefs in different religious cultures of antiquity
9) erosion caused by water in many parts of the planet

To which we can add:

10) The oldest living things are dated between 4,000 and 5,000 years old (Bristlecone Pines)
11) The oldest forms of written language are dated to approx. 5,000 years.