A 6 Day Creation

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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A 6 Day Creation

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 961 here:
EarthScienceguy wrote: There is now more evidence than ever before about 6-day creation.
For debate:

Please offer evidence for a literal six day creation of the Universe.

Please remember that in this section of the site the Bible is not considered authoritative.
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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #291

Post by dad1 »

DrNoGods wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:51 pm What? Of course you can only measure the photons once they get here (that's obvious), but it is where they originated that is the point that you seem to be missing (or misunderstanding). If a hygrogen atom at a star 1 billion light years away emits a photon due to an electron dropping from a higher energy level to the first excited level it is part of the so-called Balmer series. On Earth, this is in the visible wavelength region so is often used for demonstrations. We know all about this series:
Except if the star were actually not that distance your scenario evaporates. No one has ever been out there in the universe. So when you see the light here the only explanation is that an electron dropped energy level.
Do we know there are only four quantum levels out there? If so, how exactly? Could anything else out there that we never heard of yet cause spectral lines to shift? If so how would you know? All you see is light here. You assume that whatever shifts light, or produces a line or etc etc etc must be from causes we know here in our fishbowl. Could anything we do not know about cause wavelengths to shift out there? etc etc You do not even know what time was involved in the light getting here!

You (apparently) are trying to argue that when the photons from the star get "here" they somehow change their behavior.


No. Once here their behaviour must conform to our time and space and laws.
What evidence do you have for that, or what reasoning?
Unless you prove that time exists out there precisely as we know it here, then you may not tell us how much time anything took to get here. Even if all laws were the same out there, unless time also existed, spectra from light can tell us nothing about origins!

And how close does the photon have to get to the spectrometer before it suddenly decides to behave differently?
I think you are asking what are the limits to the fishbowl. (of where our time and space are known to exist the same) Well, I would say that would be the distance we KNOW it to exist and have been!
How far has man been? Basically to the moon, more or less. The furthest probe is not even a single light day away! So forget speaking about anything beyond that distance!
Is that mm, miles, a light year? There's no reason to believe that a photon emitted from a distant star will not be the same photon that arrives here millions or billions of years later, subject to redshifts which we understand very well. A wealth of information is contained in these photons.
That is a moot point. (as to whether forces and laws out there are the same or not) You see, unless TIME existed the same out there, it doesn't matter! Because what you thought took millions or billions of years to get here may have taken weeks or moments! We also do not know if time could affect the red shift of light! How would light behave if time itself were different along it's path? You merely take the causes of redshift we are familiar with here in the fishbowl, and try to claim that is all that could be affecting light way out there in the unknown as well! That is pure belief.

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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #292

Post by dad1 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:53 pm
dad1 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:30 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:56 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:00 am
brunumb wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:45 am
dad1 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:36 am The evidence raised was that most people on the planet have always experienced things that they attributed to spirits.
That is a claim, and an unsupported one at that. Claims are not evidence.
Oh really? so what about claims that something is evidence?
Then we ask to see what that something is, and go from there.

Are you new to debate?
If you offered any science or reason or fact to debate we could start anytime. Your religious pulpit pounding is boring.
Cool then.

Please stick to the OP, and stop crying about how science doesn't help to show religious claims're truth.
Creation is not religious truth. You don't know what it was! The religious part comes when you try to pretend your wild hunches about creation are science.

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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #293

Post by Jose Fly »

The amount of reality that creationists are willing to deny in order to maintain their religious beliefs is astounding to behold. Truly fascinating.

No wonder televangelism and end times preaching are so lucrative.
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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #294

Post by otseng »

dad1 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:00 pm
This section of the forum is titled "Science and Religion", and per the Guidelines:
Correct so if you get some science that deals with the topic let us know! Until then just admit absolute ignorance and the abject failure of science to be able to deal with it.

Creation is not a scientific claim why would anyone want to think they needed to or could support that? That is foolishness. If you want to go against anything spiritual, or a six day creation, you won't be able to offer us ANY science.
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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #295

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to dad1 in post #291]
Except if the star were actually not that distance your scenario evaporates. No one has ever been out there in the universe.
Evaporates? We don't have to physically visit a celestial body to estimate how far away it is. He's an easy to read article describing some of the methods:

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/spac ... nce-space/
Do we know there are only four quantum levels out there? If so, how exactly?
Who said anything about 4 quantum levels? No idea what you are talking about here.
Could anything else out there that we never heard of yet cause spectral lines to shift? If so how would you know? All you see is light here. You assume that whatever shifts light, or produces a line or etc etc etc must be from causes we know here in our fishbowl. Could anything we do not know about cause wavelengths to shift out there? etc etc You do not even know what time was involved in the light getting here!
Sure ... a god being could be out there playing all kinds of tricks to fool us. But what is the likelihood of that vs. all the physics we've learned over the past centuries? The vast majority of photons from distant stars don't make it to Earth, because we are such a tiny spec of dirt so far away that only a very, very tiny fraction actually hit our little planet. But those that do get here have avoided being scattered off path, absorbed, etc. and our telescopes get lucky. And we know the speed of light in a vacuum ... it is 2.99792458e10 cm/s. The entire patterns of spectral lines are redshifted ... not just some of them. It the Balmer series appeared hear all scrambled you might have a point ... but that never happens.

Your argument has no basis in reality. It is basically a claim that since we humans don't know everything, then we can't know anything and you're free to randomly make up any scenario you wish and claim it is viable or even correct. We've learned way too much about physics, spectroscopy, chemistry, etc. to accept that sort of argument without any observational support whatsoever, and you've not presented any at all yet.
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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #296

Post by dad1 »

DrNoGods wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:03 pm
Evaporates? We don't have to physically visit a celestial body to estimate how far away it is.


You do need to know some basics. Like if time exists out there, if space is the same, etc. You do not know.
He's an easy to read article describing some of the methods:

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/spac ... nce-space/
If there is anything in that pratt list you think you could defend or is not faith based, do try to support it.
Who said anything about 4 quantum levels? No idea what you are talking about here.
That has to do with what affects the spectrum.
Sure ... a god being could be out there playing all kinds of tricks to fool us. But what is the likelihood of that vs. all the physics we've learned over the past centuries? The vast majority of photons from distant stars don't make it to Earth, because we are such a tiny spec of dirt so far away that only a very, very tiny fraction actually hit our little planet.
It doesn't matter what does not make it here for whatever reason.
But those that do get here have avoided being scattered off path, absorbed, etc. and our telescopes get lucky. And we know the speed of light in a vacuum ... it is 2.99792458e10 cm/s.
You know it in a lab on earth in a vacuum! You do NOT know it out of the solar system and area just beyond. You only use belief that it is the same for no apparent reason.

The entire patterns of spectral lines are redshifted ... not just some of them
.
Great so what shifted them out there?

It the Balmer series appeared hear all scrambled you might have a point ... but that never happens.
You seem confused as to what was actually discussed.
Your argument has no basis in reality. It is basically a claim that since we humans don't know everything, then we can't know anything and you're free to randomly make up any scenario you wish and claim it is viable or even correct.


The topic was not 'everything'. The issue is what man knows about time in the far universe. The answer is nothing at all. So why assume it is the same as here for NO reason? You were trying to use the far universe as evidence that things were always the same here. (forces and laws) You cannot do that since you cannot know any distance to any star.

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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #297

Post by JoeyKnothead »

dad1 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:17 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:53 pm
dad1 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:30 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:56 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:00 am
brunumb wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:45 am
dad1 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:36 am The evidence raised was that most people on the planet have always experienced things that they attributed to spirits.
That is a claim, and an unsupported one at that. Claims are not evidence.
Oh really? so what about claims that something is evidence?
Then we ask to see what that something is, and go from there.

Are you new to debate?
If you offered any science or reason or fact to debate we could start anytime. Your religious pulpit pounding is boring.
Cool then.
Please stick to the OP, and stop crying about how science doesn't help to show religious claims're truth.
Creation is not religious truth. You don't know what it was!
Score that as one agin the claim presented in the OP.
The religious part comes when you try to pretend your wild hunches about creation are science.
Agreed.
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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #298

Post by dad1 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:39 pm Score that as one agin the claim presented in the OP.
There is no evidence for creation from science. There is no authoritative source other than the Bible for creation. Therefore when someone calls for evidence and bans the bible as possible evidence one is left in the dark with nothing at all. If you are happy with that, OK.
That being said I will point out that science has no evidence that is against a 6 day creation by God!

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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #299

Post by brunumb »

dad1 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:27 pm Try to read for comprehension, science cannot deal with or cover anything spiritual such as creation. Period.
Putting the spiritual and creation squarely in the same bin as the non-existent or purely imaginary. Wishful thinking and faith are not pathways to the truth.
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Re: A 6 Day Creation

Post #300

Post by brunumb »

dad1 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:45 pm There also was some major things going on after the flood year, such as probably the rapid continental movement and mountain building (subduction, uplift,pushing together of land mass to form mountains etc etc etc) So the high mountains of today were not here in the time of the flood.
Assumptions. Now all you need to do is demonstrate the truth of those unsupported claims. Science, on the other hand, has thoroughly debunked the biblical flood along with the absurd explanations put forward by creationists. There was no Noah and no flood except in the minds of creationists desperately trying to prop up their faith.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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