The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #1

Post by William »

"I am only able to see gibberish"

I am presently sharing my Generated Messages with a variety of internet platforms and have noticed that non-theists insist that they only see 'gibberish' [unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense.] whereas with theists - no matter what particular belief they have - they appear to be able to - at least - get the gist of any GM - even if some of it is not understood.

To begin with, I was highly skeptical and thought that non-theists were being disingenuous [pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.] and in that, I used other ways in which to try and help them to understand what was taking place, [such as diagrams and analogies], but nothing helped.

This has lead me to question my skepticism and I am now wondering if it is just the case that once an individual unreservedly believes that they - the mind/consciousness - are nothing more than brain chemicals, anything contrary to that understanding simply isn't able to penetrate because "The Mind' only happens in brains and is the reason minds exist."


Is it the case that
1. non-theists are simply unable to 'get their head around ideas' which are outside of the idea that we are simply emergent properties of brains, [every other idea is gibberish/gobbledygook

or

2. are they just being disingenuous?

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #71

Post by William »

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #62]

I have seen that argument before and countered it, only to be informed by the non-theist that the planet Earth cannot be considered a conscious entity, because there is 'no evidence'.

Apparently the planet existing as it does, is not enough evidence for the non-theist to accept that the planet is conscious and intelligent.

So the arguments cannot be reconciled in any way, so there is no point wasting time pretending otherwise.

Which - lest we forget - is what the OP is about.

I am satisfied given the responses, that I am correctly understanding that - in matters of mind - which is really the source of the disagreement between theist and non-theist, there is no point in my - as a theist - engaging with non-theists.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #72

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Difflugia wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:47 am
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:20 amThe atheist believes in materialism, empiricism. They hold that view not because they can prove it correct but because they see no reason (no "evidence") that it is false.
This is true. It's also the only thing in your comment that's true.
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:20 amThe atheist often reduces a serious conversation into a humorous one too, the little digs and jokes about Rorschach tests and so on, typify these discussions,
It's not a dig. The psychological pressures involved in being human and evaluating evidence are well-known. Several members have offered the OP ways to cure the defects in the data gathering and analysis.
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:20 amreducing the argument to one that portrays the theist as a little soppy, not quite grasping science, not to be taken too seriously and so on,
The unwillingness to cure the defective method is what implies those things.
Your reply is a good example of the sarcasm that is never far away, no interest in a serious discussion, you prove my point for me!

Everything you say is predicated on the belief that you could potentially recognize evidence for theism if it were "shown" to you, but the materialist cannot possibly ever do so, because everything is evidence of materialism to them even things not yet understood mechanistically. By adopting materialism you've made the decision that nothing can be observed or experienced that is not materialism so you've tainted your ability to ever see what you keep asking to see - evidence.

This is the vacuity of atheism that I've spoken to you and others about in this forum, you are the reason you cannot see the evidence, not an actual lack of evidence. This is the stuff of beginners philosophy and metaphysics too, so easy to go and learn about if you cared to.

Scientism is a like a drug, people get hooked on it and it becomes the only real thing to them, they use it to frame and define who they are and what they think, it's so inhibiting though, like a drug - heroin for example - it becomes their world, truly understanding reality is not really the goal.

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #73

Post by William »

[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #72]

Given that what you say is true - the only thing left to do is to disengage.

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #74

Post by Difflugia »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:09 pmYour reply is a good example of the sarcasm that is never far away, no interest in a serious discussion, you prove my point for me!
None of that was sarcastic. If that's what you saw, it may prove a different point.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #75

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:20 am The atheist believes in materialism, empiricism. They hold that view not because they can prove it correct but because they see no reason (no "evidence") that it is false. The atheist is therefore really asking for reasons to stop being an atheist yet their belief that materialism is true prevents them from comprehending evidence that undermines materialism therefore they are intellectually trapped.
The atheist lacks belief in a god or gods.

The atheist is under no responsibility to hold to materialism, or as you'll later state, "scientism".
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Once one adopts materialism as a belief it is very hard to escape because all experiences are interpreted as some aspect of materialism even the many that cannot be proven to be. (often defended by one of the core atheist statements of faith: "but just because science hasn't explained this yet doesn't mean...)
The same can be said of the god bunch, only, ya know, from their side of the deal.

Offsetting penalties, still first down.
Sherlock Holmes wrote: The belief itself limits what the mind can learn, it is an intellectual straitjacket, very hard to escape from. The theist operates at a higher, less restricted intellectual level. They naturally value materialism but in addition see no reason to believe theism is false and so additionally embrace the spiritual and can see a different universe one that's hidden from the atheist through their own choice, albeit unwittingly.
That's hilarious, considering how so many theists reject the fact of evolution, on up to sound medical advice.
Sherlock Holmes wrote: They seem to never consider that if materialism is false then materialism cannot ever reveal that fact to them, this is the trap.
As if "Believe in me, or you're you in a whole heap of trouble" ain't a trap.
Sherlock Holmes wrote: This is made all the worse today by the increasing prevalence of "scientism" as the only rational way to perceive the universe, it is a belief though, no evidence to support the claim.
So we discard mean ol 'scientism', and ask what's rational about, "He's up there y'all, and me and him boths mad as a cuss at a good bunch of ya".
Sherlock Holmes wrote: The atheist often strives to reduce a serious conversation into a humorous one too
It can't possibly be that so many theists' claims're hilariously goofy, can it?

I propose this 'demand' that certain claims or beliefs oughta be held to some standard of "serious" is merely the product of folks demanding their unproven, unprovable claims oughta never be questioned.

Heck with that, ya make a goofy statement or claim, ya oughta expect a goofy response.
Sherlock Holmes wrote: , the little digs and jokes about Rorschach tests, sarcasm and so on, typify these discussions, reducing the argument to one that portrays the theist as a little soppy, not quite grasping science, not to be taken too seriously and so on, almost all the threads here about this reduce sooner or later to ridicule and on and on it goes.
As the Christian promotes the 'virtues' of a god that'd have us stoning folks just for em having had bedual relations among their own gender.
This depicts how these conversations proceed or end up over and over again:
Image
Nevermind how it was far more likely to be Christians putting ya in stocks than it was the atheists to do it...

this is how asking the theist how we can confirm they speak truth ends up the being it...




"My beliefs're special, so y'all quit picking on me about em" ain't near it as viable an argument as, "So see, given the facts, God really does hate him the homos. Here's ya a rock."
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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #76

Post by William »

William wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:56 pm [Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #72]

Given that what you say is true - the only thing left to do is to disengage.
Sherlock Holmes - The "hook" is cast...are you able to swim by it without being tempted to engage?

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #77

Post by brunumb »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:01 am This is the impasse and although the atheist can claim evidence has not been presented he cannot prove it, it all comes down to the nature of evidence and is interpretation. If the atheist cannot recognize evidence for God, then why does he demand to see it?
Rather than presenting evidence that should convince me that God exists, how about you present the evidence that convinced you that God exists. We can then take it from there.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #78

Post by brunumb »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:06 am Are there true statements that cannot be demonstrated to be true?
If a statement cannot be demonstrated to be true, then how can one claim that it is true?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #79

Post by brunumb »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:20 am The belief itself limits what the mind can learn, it is an intellectual straitjacket, very hard to escape from. The theist operates at a higher, less restricted intellectual level. They naturally value materialism but in addition see no reason to believe theism is false and so additionally embrace the spiritual and can see a different universe one that's hidden from the atheist through their own choice, albeit unwittingly.
Talk about hubris. Living one's life and believing in things that have not been demonstrated to exist, like the supernatural, is hardly operating at a higher intellectual level. Although the child expecting a visit from the tooth fairy might just be doing that I suppose.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The Thesist and non-Theist Brain

Post #80

Post by brunumb »

William wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:16 pm Apparently the planet existing as it does, is not enough evidence for the non-theist to accept that the planet is conscious and intelligent.
Are you suggesting that all theists accept that the planet is conscious and intelligent?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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