Resolved: Christian apologists only use scientific evidence and conclusions when they believe those conclusions verify some Biblical claim.
Sub-issue:
It is intellectually biased and inconsistent to claim "science provides convincing evidence" only when such evidence appears to favor the Christian fundamentalist POV, then to turn around and favor "divine revelation" over science, when the scientific evidence does not support a Biblical literalist POV.
Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
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Diogenes
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Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #1
Last edited by Diogenes on Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tcg
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #11As I've already explained, atheists don't deny God. We lack belief in god/gods. You are right however that my statement is true.Eloi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:36 amTrue ... except for the fact that at that time the theory of evolution was the atheist's favorite weapon for denying God... like the knife in the hands of the murderer, not the butcher's.Tcg wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:32 amOh, my. Faking evidence of evolution is not a denial of God. A great many theists accept the fact of evolution. Besides that, the Piltdown man was exposed as a fake long ago.Eloi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:23 amThank you for saying how some of you want to express how you feel about it. Some people don't know how other people perceive them, and science cannot decide that.Tcg wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:17 amNo, atheists don't deny God, we lack belief in god/gods.Eloi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:06 am The phrase "the use of science" defines science as a tool. People can put whatever use they want to any tool. For a believer, the best use that can be given to any tool is to glorify the Creator of the material Universe and of our mind to observe it, analyze it and produce things from both.
Atheists try to use "science" to deny God... And yet science IS NOT ATHEIST, it is just a tool.
Tcg
Interestingly, and to readjust an earlier comment, atheist members of the scientific community have also committed many dishonest acts to deny God. Does anyone remember the famous Piltdown man?
Tcg
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Eloi
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #12[Replying to Tcg in post #2]
In addition to that, this has not been the only fraud of a member of the scientific community, far from it.
Some atheists deify the scientific community, confusing it with true knowledge and research techniques. One thing is the tool, another is those who use it, and another is what is produced from all of it.
As I said before: Science is not atheist.
In addition to that, this has not been the only fraud of a member of the scientific community, far from it.
Some atheists deify the scientific community, confusing it with true knowledge and research techniques. One thing is the tool, another is those who use it, and another is what is produced from all of it.
As I said before: Science is not atheist.
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #13No, we don't turn science into a deity. We lack belief in god/gods.Eloi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:43 am [Replying to Tcg in post #2]
In addition to that, this has not been the only fraud of a member of the scientific community, far from it.
Some atheists deify the scientific community, confusing it with true knowledge and research techniques. One thing is the tool, another is those who use it, and another is what is produced from all of it.
As I said before: Science is not atheist.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Eloi
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #14[Replying to Tcg in post #13]
You don't need to repeat it so many times... everybody knows how some of you want to define what "atheism" is.
The truth about it is no one needs an atheist definition of what that means. That kind of definition is not even scientific, it only pretends to be philosophical, and moreover, only from an interested party. There are many definitions and ways of seeing things in this world.
Regardless of how your group wants to define what it is to be an atheist, ordinary people already know what it is, even before your group was formed. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. The one who has no idea about it, from my own point of view, is just an agnostic... and I am not interested in discussing it with you. Believe me, you are not going to decide how I understand things.
You don't need to repeat it so many times... everybody knows how some of you want to define what "atheism" is.
The truth about it is no one needs an atheist definition of what that means. That kind of definition is not even scientific, it only pretends to be philosophical, and moreover, only from an interested party. There are many definitions and ways of seeing things in this world.
Regardless of how your group wants to define what it is to be an atheist, ordinary people already know what it is, even before your group was formed. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. The one who has no idea about it, from my own point of view, is just an agnostic... and I am not interested in discussing it with you. Believe me, you are not going to decide how I understand things.
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Tcg
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #15Apparently, I do because it keeps getting misrepresented as a denial of God. That is not what atheism is. Denial implies that one knows that something exists but denies its existence. That's not the case here. And I'll repeat it for clarification, it is a lack of belief in god/gods.Eloi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:55 am [Replying to Tcg in post #13]
You don't need to repeat it so many times... everybody knows how some of you want to define what "atheism" is.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Eloi
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #16I do not see it the way you do.Tcg wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:02 pmApparently, I do because it keeps getting misrepresented as a denial of God. That is not what atheism is. Denial implies that one knows that something exists but denies its existence. That's not the case here. And I'll repeat it for clarification, it is a lack of belief in god/gods.Eloi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:55 am [Replying to Tcg in post #13]
You don't need to repeat it so many times... everybody knows how some of you want to define what "atheism" is.
Tcg
That definition of your group implies that atheists would change their minds if there was proof that God exists (and there is) ... but that is false. An atheist will ALWAYS try to deny or reinterpret the evidence for God's existence. The one who would change his position would be the agnostic.
Maybe some of you don't really know what they are... or maybe you should stop trying to make such narrow, ambiguous definitions, or try to stop making them at all, and start thinking independently and not as a philosophical party or not based on labels. Who knows?
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #17We do. And it is not deniers of God. Straw man representations of what we are don't help advance understanding.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Eloi
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #18The point is: you can describe what you feel, BUT NOT other ... that is a fallacy.
Some people stop being individuals and forget reality. A balance between the self and the group is required in order to live healthily.
Those who create that view of what atheism means don't go down the street asking all the atheists how they feel about it. They just want people to believe that an atheist is just what they want to define. People are smarter than that.
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #19It's not a matter of feelings but rather of fact and I've presented facts not feelings.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
-
Eloi
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science
Post #20What facts? Well, for some other day it will be that I read your answer, perhaps. I guess my interest in this conversation has expired.
Anyway, I don't think atheism is having no evidence for the existence of a Creator. I think atheism is not wanting to accept that we had a Creator, and no matter how much proof you give them, they're not going to change their minds.
Have a nice day.
