Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

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Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

Resolved: Christian apologists only use scientific evidence and conclusions when they believe those conclusions verify some Biblical claim.
Sub-issue:
It is intellectually biased and inconsistent to claim "science provides convincing evidence" only when such evidence appears to favor the Christian fundamentalist POV, then to turn around and favor "divine revelation" over science, when the scientific evidence does not support a Biblical literalist POV.
Last edited by Diogenes on Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #51

Post by Eloi »

I wish you the best on creating a forum about leprechauns and Pascal.

You don´t have "evidence" that God does not exist. I do have evidence that He does. You can not do anything about it, it is not of your business. The only thing you can do is listening my evidences so at least you know my reasons; you have not part on what I consider evidence for myself. Sorry.

Anyway, why are you so concerned about what my position is?

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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #52

Post by Difflugia »

Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:07 pmYou don´t have "evidence" that God does not exist.
That's been established.
Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:07 pmI do have evidence that He does. You can not do anything about it, it is not of your business.
You haven't established that.
Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:07 pmThe only thing you can do is listening my evidences so at least you know my reasons; you have not part on what I consider evidence for myself. Sorry.
So far, I've only seen the claim that you have evidence, not what that evidence is.
Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:07 pmAnyway, why are you so concerned about what my position is?
When you commented in a debate forum, were you not expecting debate?
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #53

Post by Eloi »

"established"???? :D By whom?
I establish my own beliefs by myself. So do you, I guess.
The world is bigger than you or those "established" things for yourself.
The evidence for the existence of God is that I exist, and that's it.

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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #54

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:18 pm "established"???? :D By whom?
I establish my own beliefs by myself. So do you, I guess.
The world is bigger than you or those "established" things for yourself.
The evidence for the existence of God is that I exist, and that's it.
I know claims can be invigorating to the claimant, but they don't go anywhere in convincing others. So how about some evidence or at least a good argument?


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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #55

Post by Difflugia »

Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:18 pm"established"???? :D By whom?
I establish my own beliefs by myself. So do you, I guess.
The world is bigger than you or those "established" things for yourself.
The evidence for the existence of God is that I exist, and that's it.
Is this intended to support the claim that your arguments are scientific?
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #56

Post by Eloi »

Miles wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:18 pm "established"???? :D By whom?
I establish my own beliefs by myself. So do you, I guess.
The world is bigger than you or those "established" things for yourself.
The evidence for the existence of God is that I exist, and that's it.
I know claims can be invigorating to the claimant, but they don't go anywhere in convincing others. So how about some evidence or at least a good argument?


.
For me to exist, God is a must.

Life come from life; order comes from an organizer. There is no chaos that can generate life or beauty by itself.

My awareness of myself and of the outside cannot be casual. Life on this planet is too special to have arisen by chance. There is no real probability that this Universe arose by itself and by chance, without someone directing the process.

It is simple logic, but it seems to be very hard to understand for atheists. How can I help you to be more reasonable? Who needs science to understand that?

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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #57

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:31 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:18 pm "established"???? :D By whom?
I establish my own beliefs by myself. So do you, I guess.
The world is bigger than you or those "established" things for yourself.
The evidence for the existence of God is that I exist, and that's it.
I know claims can be invigorating to the claimant, but they don't go anywhere in convincing others. So how about some evidence or at least a good argument?


.
For me to exist, God is a must.

Life come from life; order comes from an organizer. There is no chaos that can generate life or beauty by itself.

My awareness of myself and of the outside cannot be casual. Life on this planet is too special to have arisen by chance. There is no real probability that this Universe arose by itself and by chance, without someone directing the process.

It is simple logic, but it seems to be very hard to understand for atheists. How can I help you to be more reasonable? Who needs science to understand that?
Just to be clear here, unless a statement embraces one of the three laws of logical thought, (1) the law of contradiction, (2) the law of excluded middle, and (3) the principle of identity, mere statements (claims in this case) don't rise to the level of logic, simple or otherwise. You claim that

A. Life comes from life;

B. Order comes from an organizer.

C. There is no chaos that can generate life by itself.

D. There is no chaos that can generate beauty by itself.

This is very nice, but without evidence or an argument to back them up they're nothing but your opinions. Opinions that carry no more weight than my opinions about life, order, and chaos. And the same can be said about your statements concerning your awareness of yourself, the outside, and life on this planet. Mere opinions as they stand, lacking any power whatsoever to convince.

So, PLEASE, give us evidence of some sort, or a decent argument to work with to show why they're true.




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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #58

Post by Eloi »

:D Hehehehe, I do not know if I am talking to persons or to machines. Sorry.
Have a nice day.

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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #59

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:04 pm :D Hehehehe, I do not know if I am talking to persons or to machines. Sorry.
Have a nice day.
I'm sure you don't, but that's okay. Perhaps in the years to come you'll be able to distinguish the two. Until then, hang in there and listen to your local atheists. They can usually get a person through the rough spots in life. :mrgreen:


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Re: Glaring Inconsistency in the Use of Science

Post #60

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to Eloi in post #56]
Life come from life; order comes from an organizer. There is no chaos that can generate life or beauty by itself.
Who organizes showflakes and their intricate shapes? And who has ever said that "chaos" generated life? Chemical reactions are not random or chaotic. They proceed according to how bonds form to create molecules and structures from atoms, and this is influenced by a host of environmental inputs including temperature, pressure, light, etc. There is no reason to believe that the first living populations didn't arise from purely natural phenomena. Personal incredulity does not change this.
Life on this planet is too special to have arisen by chance. There is no real probability that this Universe arose by itself and by chance, without someone directing the process.
But life could have arose from the nonrandom actions of chemistry and physics. Pure chance is not a mechanism that is on the table for how life began as far as I know. And what do you mean by "special"? We don't know the mechanism for how the universe came into existence, just like we don't yet know the mechanism for how life arose from nonliving substances. So you cannot claim that neither are possible without some god being directing the process.
It is simple logic, but it seems to be very hard to understand for atheists. How can I help you to be more reasonable? Who needs science to understand that?
But it isn't simple logic. It is your personal opinion because you do believe in the existence of a god being and want to attribute things to that entity that you can't fathom could happen naturally without that being's actions. Standard religious, nonscientific viewpoint, but it certainly isn't simple logic.
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