Can we debate respectfully?

[Sherlock Holmes]

I've listened to this debate several times over the years, it was broadcast by the BBC on radio a great many years ago.

Its a debate on the existence of God between two very respected intellectuals, Bertrand Russel and Frederick Copleston. Each of these men wrote a comprehensive history of philosophy and were well versed in philosophy, logic, history and so on, they were well matched.

What is striking is that neither party ever gets personal, they focus entirely on their opponents arguments, no petty insinuating, snide remarks or disparaging words.

Fr. Frederick C. Copleston vs Bertrand Russell

If you prefer to skip the introductions and go right to the debate use this link.

Fr. Frederick C. Copleston vs Bertrand Russell - No Intro

So the question - why do so many debates in the Science and Religion area often end up getting personal and stray away from the pure hard logic of the topic itself?

[Clownboat]

They were rhetorical, stated to serve as examples of what I see. But enough about me.

So you claim to see this, yet failed when challenged to show it was happening.

For the readers, again here was the challenge:
Now we are on to something! In the post (#35) you quoted, please copy/paste where I commented on your character and motives. I think we would all benefit from seeing just how this leads to not being able to debate respectfully.

Oh well...

[Inquirer]

They were rhetorical, stated to serve as examples of what I see. But enough about me.

So you claim to see this, yet failed when challenged to show it was happening.

For the readers, again here was the challenge:
Now we are on to something! In the post (#35) you quoted, please copy/paste where I commented on your character and motives. I think we would all benefit from seeing just how this leads to not being able to debate respectfully.

Oh well...

These are snippets of things you've said:

Perhaps that is why some believers come to this forum, to get them their perceived persecution so they can feel like they are doing Christianity correctly?

Your error in thinking that Christianity has anything to do with such thinking though, assuming that is why you mention 'As a Christian' above.

Want to consider yourself (generic) a good Christian, make sure you can identify some persecution in your life.

It is hard to debate respectfully when there are those seeking to 'see' persecution in their lives. So you disagree?

The clear insinuation that I have some desire to be perceived as "persecuted" runs through your remarks, these are uncivil provocative remarks that have no place in polite reasoned discourse.

So stop discussing me and discuss the subject please, else I'll have nothing more to say to you in this thread.

[Clownboat]

They were rhetorical, stated to serve as examples of what I see. But enough about me.

So you claim to see this, yet failed when challenged to show it was happening.

For the readers, again here was the challenge:
Now we are on to something! In the post (#35) you quoted, please copy/paste where I commented on your character and motives. I think we would all benefit from seeing just how this leads to not being able to debate respectfully.

Oh well...

These are snippets of things you've said:

Perhaps that is why some believers come to this forum, to get them their perceived persecution so they can feel like they are doing Christianity correctly?

Your error in thinking that Christianity has anything to do with such thinking though, assuming that is why you mention 'As a Christian' above.

Want to consider yourself (generic) a good Christian, make sure you can identify some persecution in your life.

It is hard to debate respectfully when there are those seeking to 'see' persecution in their lives. So you disagree?

The clear insinuation that I have some desire to be perceived as "persecuted" runs through your remarks, these are uncivil provocative remarks that have no place in polite reasoned discourse.

So stop discussing me and discuss the subject please, else I'll have nothing more to say to you in this thread.

None of that is me making claims about your character and/or motives.
You did bold some pronouns though.

Readers, consider specifially some of what transpired:
Copy/Paste: Clownboat = "Have you ever attended a church that claimed that if you are not being persecuted, you are not being good Christian?
I did and I can see how such teachings could create persecution complexes. Want to consider yourself (generic) a good Christian, make sure you can identify some persecution in your life."
A real life scenario that I personally lived through is being taken as being disrespectful, even when I clarified that the 'yourself' was a generic yourself and specifically not directed at the poster in question.

Should I feel disrespected for having my real life scenario be ignored and turned into a personal attack? Oh the irony.
I submit that reacting in such a way to a personal, real life scenario does make debating respectfully difficult. How dare I relay an experience I had afterall.

[Purple Knight]

So the question - why do so many debates in the Science and Religion area often end up getting personal and stray away from the pure hard logic of the topic itself?

Because nobody knows what the truth is and everyone's insecure about it.

[We_Are_VENOM]

[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #1]

I blame the New Atheist movement for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

Some of them came across as smug, patronizing, and antagonistic.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #1]

I blame the New Atheist movement for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

Some of them came across as smug, patronizing, and antagonistic.

Let's see. The poster asking the OP question, Sherlock Holmes, racked up 9 Moderator Warnings before changing their ID to Inquirer. Under that ID they've received 5 Moderator Comments.

The poster known as We Are VENOM has received a total of 2 Moderator Warnings, one a final Warning, and 20 Moderator Comments.

Neither, as far as I know, identify as New Atheists. I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #1]

I blame the New Atheist movement for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

Some of them came across as smug, patronizing, and antagonistic.

It can't possibly have it to do with Christians imposing their beliefs by the sword, the courts, or their sacred slanders and insults.

For hundreds of years.

[JoeyKnothead]

Let's see. The poster asking the OP question, Sherlock Holmes, racked up 9 Moderator Warnings before changing their ID to Inquirer. Under that ID they've received 5 Moderator Comments.

The poster known as We Are VENOM has received a total of 2 Moderator Warnings, one a final Warning, and 20 Moderator Comments.

Neither, as far as I know, identify as New Atheists. I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.


Tcg

Joey sheepishly slinks down in his desk.

[We_Are_VENOM]

Let's see. The poster asking the OP question, Sherlock Holmes, racked up 9 Moderator Warnings before changing their ID to Inquirer. Under that ID they've received 5 Moderator Comments.

The poster known as We Are VENOM has received a total of 2 Moderator Warnings, one a final Warning, and 20 Moderator Comments.

Yeah and while you are busy tallying up strikes and technical fouls of certain posters, check the Christian/Atheist ratio on the moderation board.

Most of the moderators are atheists..and most of those reporting (basically, snitching) on our posts are our debate opponents, who are also atheists.

So you have atheists reporting to atheists.

Doesn't seem transparent to me.

Neither, as far as I know, identify as New Atheists. I suspect the problem lies elsewhere.
Tcg

Yeah, I suspect the problem lies with members getting dinged for little to nothing.

I just got dinged for accusing a poster of splitting hairs. SMH.

So basically, someone said "it goes against forum rules to accuse someone of making unnecessary distinctions". (which is all splitting hairs means)

If you cant say "Splitting hairs at its finest" (which is all I said)...then what can you say?

I make a lot of atheists uncomfortable on here, and on a forum filled with the opposing party also acting as the authorities, it is only a matter of time before I get MLK'ed, or Jesus Christ'ed.

Thats what happens when you ruffle the wrong feathers.

You get JFK'ed.

[JoeyKnothead]

If you cant say "Splitting hairs at its finest" (which is all I said)...then what can you say?

?