Would you still deny evolution if the bible said it's true

dangerdan · Post by **dangerdan** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:26 am

An idea I’m interested in is whether a creationist’s rejection of evolution is based on objective evidence of fossils and science (assuming this exists) …or…is it more to do with the fact that the bible teaches something different to evolution?

Suppose there was a theoretical verse in the bible (that people had somehow glossed over) that seemed to say that evolution is true, and that Genesis is not to be taken literally. Now would the Christians on this board still hold that the earth is roughly 8000 years old and Adam and Eve were the first human beings, etc?…even though you would now disagree with the bible (due to this theoretical new verse)? Are your convictions in a young earth that strong that you’d even disagree with the bible?!

What I’m asking is if you’re belief in “creationism” is really based on the fact that the bible says so, and not so much on objective empirical evidence like fossils, etc.

Are you just trying to rationalize the bible? Honestly now.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:51 am

Spongemom:

What makes "my" religion better than "anyone else's" is that I ahve a God that cares so much about me that he suffered a horrible death for me, so that I could be in Heaven eternally with Him. I have a personal relationship with a personal God. He isn't some unknowable and uncaring entity floating through some sort of cosmic mist...He cares about His children. Also, my Savior rose from the dead. I don't think any other religion can make that claim.

Spongemom · Post by **Spongemom** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:07 am

Amadeus wrote:What makes "my" religion better than "anyone else's" is that I ahve a God that cares so much about me that he suffered a horrible death for me, so that I could be in Heaven eternally with Him. I have a personal relationship with a personal God. He isn't some unknowable and uncaring entity floating through some sort of cosmic mist...He cares about His children. Also, my Savior rose from the dead. I don't think any other religion can make that claim.

Your religion can only make that claim because it has a storybook to go along with it. And your "God" did not suffer a horrible death, Jesus did. And Jesus has not been proven to have been "divine" in any way, other than in your storybook.

You have a personal relationship with anything you want. That's your choice. But just because you believe in something, how exactly does that make it true for everyone else? Don't tell me "Because God says so", either. I could make up an entity of my own, and tell everyone that what I believe is "right", and the ONLY difference between my doing that, and any other religion, is that I haven't written a storybook for it yet.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:27 am

Look at it this way...If you believe there is no God, and you are correct in your belief, but I believe there is a God, I would be wrong. It could not be true for me, because there would be no God.

The reverse is true. If I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost, and believe they are the same God, and I am right, but you don't believe, that does not mean that we can both be right. There either is a God or there is not. (sorry for the runon sentences

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Spongemom · Post by **Spongemom** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:41 am

Amadeus wrote:Look at it this way...If you believe there is no God, and you are correct in your belief, but I believe there is a God, I would be wrong. It could not be true for me, because there would be no God.

The reverse is true. If I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost, and believe they are the same God, and I am right, but you don't believe, that does not mean that we can both be right. There either is a God or there is not. (sorry for the runon sentences )

In truth, no one can really know what's right. Which is why everyone should be free to believe anything they want. Hence the term "Freedom of religion".

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:44 am

I was never arguing about freedom to believe what we want. I was arguing about your notion about relative truth.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess we weren't on the same page.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:50 am

Amadeus wrote: Also, my Savior rose from the dead. I don't think any other religion can make that claim.

Perhaps ypu shoud look again...

Examples of a resurrected deity are Syrian and Greek worship of Adonis; Egyptian worship of Osiris; the Babylonian story of Tammuz; and rural religious belief in the Corn King.

These all, I believe, predate the Jesus myth and are more than likely the source of the Christian version of the same story.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:57 am

Amadeus wrote:Look at it this way...If you believe there is no God, and you are correct in your belief, but I believe there is a God, I would be wrong. It could not be true for me, because there would be no God.

The reverse is true. If I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost, and believe they are the same God, and I am right, but you don't believe, that does not mean that we can both be right. There either is a God or there is not. (sorry for the runon sentences )

Not necessarily. Your god is omnipotent is it not?

It would be very easy for your god to exist only for you or those who believe and not for others. Same for those who are Muslim. And the Hindus with 330 million manifestations.

I have no problem at all with god existing for you...I think that is wonderful for you if it is what makes your life worthwhile. I also have no problem with the fact that he does not exist for me - my life is just fine without him.

God has blessed me with his absence.

Jose · Post by **Jose** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:01 pm

Hmmm...it looks to me as if we've wandered off into philosophy. There are a couple of threads that already exist that would be better for this particular discussion--such as Does God Exist? and In the mind of the believer. This second thread looks like the right place, since Amadeus is suggesting that God exists for everyone, but Spongemom and Bernee51 are countering that Amadeus' God doesn't exist for them. Why not move this discussion to that thread? Having it here makes it hard for newcomers to find the discussion of Would you still deny evolution if the bible said it's true, and also hides the interesting discussion you're having from those who would seek it in the more appropriately-named threads.

illuminatus · Post by **illuminatus** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:53 pm

Spongemom wrote:Then explain why modern day "Christians" are still so concerned with what people do in their bedrooms, or in the doctor's office. Why are some sins cast aside as no longer sins, but some, from the same book, mind you, are still so strongly opposed? Who decides?

Because whether Christians want to believe it or not evolution is possible and does happen. Society has evolved and continues to evolve beyond such things as stoning. Christians just complain about things they can complain and get away with. No one in their right mind will say that a woman should be stoned for cheating on her husband even though it explicitly says in the Bibile that she should. Why? Because it is not acceptable in our society. Yet it's plausable to say that many people feel this way and believe it is right.

I do not mean to make a negative connection here, but this is the only example I can make that everyone may reference. There was an elected official who started the KKK. Everyone liked the guy. He said what people wanted to hear and never spoke ill of people with dark skin in public. Yet he was the head of the KKK.

Christians speak out about abortion and pre-marital sex because society allows them to. If the majority of society didn't see it as a problem then Christians would have no grounds to speak on the subject other than their beliefs.

As for the topic of evolution. Some Christians believe in evolution. They are called Catholics. The Pope himself said that evolution coincides with the bible. If you don't like it then go cry somewhere.

Furthermore, Christians don't just believe what the bible says. They believe what people in power within their respective churches say. If a minister said abortion is okay and so is pre-marital sex even though the bible says it is not and had a reasonable way of explaining it then they would go home thinking it's okay.

dangerdan · Post by **dangerdan** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:50 am

Sorry about my lack of activity here guys, I hope I’m not dragging down the pace of the thread by replying to the first response

My main problem with evolution is that the bible doesn't support it (evolutionists claim things were created in a different order than the Bible says, etc.) so, yeah, if the Bible said evolution was true, I guess I would believe it.

Amadeus, I appreciate your honesty. I get the impression you are not alone in your beliefs.

Highly technical Christian arguments about specific fossils and such, as interesting as they are, seem to be a rather elaborate construction to rationalize the bible, though I could be wrong.