How does God create?

[harvey1]

One of the most common misunderstood translations of the Hebrew Bible is the word 'create'. It comes from the Hebrew word translated [bara'] (or 'arb' in the original Hebrew). This word originally meant 'to cut' or 'to separate', hence God in Genesis 1 is pictured as separating light from darkness, or separating waters above (clouds/atmosphere) from waters below (oceans, seas, etc), separating land from water, separating species according to their kinds, separating the greater light of the day (sun) from the lessor light of the night (moon and stars), separating sea life from those things that fly, separating man from beast, and separating the Sabbath (rest day) from the rest of the days of the week. This is the role of the Creator in the minds of the Hebrews.

Here's some scriptures which show the Qal active use of [BARA']:

Psalm 102:18 "Let this be written for a future generation, that a people not yet created [BARA'] may praise the Lord" (NIV).

Psalm 104:30 says, "When you send your Spirit, they [animals] are created [BARA'] and you renew the face of the earth" (NIV).

Psalm 139:13 says, "For you created [BARA'] my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." (NIV).

Isaiah 43:1 declares, "But now, this is what the Lord says- he who created [BARA'] you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel" (NIV)."

Notice that the term 'created' is used not just to 'create' the heavens from a primordial chaos, it is also the same term to mean a few other meanings. For example:

Jos 17:15 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down ([BARA']) for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.(KJV)

So, what you see here is a term used that means to separate, and this act of separation is what God naturally did to form the Psalmist in his mother's womb, it was used to separate and form Israel, and it was what Joshua told the children of Joseph to do in order to clear some land. Even in Genesis it is very clear that the waters existed and were formless (i.e., chaos). Basically, it does not mean what creationists would like it to mean, which is that the God of the Hebrews is a hocus pocus kind of God. The semantic meaning of the text forbids this interpretation.

Now, look at this scripture again:

Psalm 104:30 says, "When you send your Spirit, they [animals] are created [BARA'] and you renew the face of the earth" (NIV).

This is talking about the creation of the world. The world begins in chaos, and God is renewing it (or making anew) the world. It is a separation process (or ordering process), and it is a natural process as Ps. 139:13 makes clear by forming the Psalmist in the womb (also see Jer. 1:5).

So, it just doesn't make any sense what creationists are saying with respect to their opposing evolution. It just isn't biblical. The biblical approach is evolutionary processes as the above argument shows.

Frankly, I have absolutely no idea why creationists are arguing against evolution. It satisfies the translation for the Hebrew [BARA'], and it simply makes no sense at all to oppose this belief in evolution. No sense at all. So, why do creationists oppose it? My only answer to that is because they don't want to accept the consequences of the world chosen by Adam. For that, I have absolutely no reason why a Christian would reject the basic and central teaching of Christianity which shows that Adam brought the natural world upon us. It boggles my mind.

[harvey1]

Why does the creation order not align with evo theories?

Of course it aligns with evolutionary theory. Why would you suggest that it is not??

[YEC]

GEN 1:16 happened after the formation of the earth.
The sun, moon and stars made after the earth.


GEN 1:20...fish and birds created.
According to evo theory birds evolved from lizards..not fish.

The lizards were created later in GEN 1:24.

[YEC]

God breathed life into adamah (clay), and then he took that adamah (clay with life) and made animals. Now, are you suggesting that God made animals from a human being?

Why would i even suggest that?

You said that I haven't explained that Adam was created from the adamah and how that can be compatible with evolution, but in actuality, you haven't explained how animals can be created from the same adamah that God breathed life. If Genesis is NOT talking about evolution, then you can't explain Gen.2 were God creates the animals from the adamah.

Just because Adam was made from the dust and the animals are also made from the ground does'nt mean evolution.

If evolution was the method then God (Jesus) would have said from the animals I created man..not dust.

You are adding to the creation account based upon your faith in evolutionism all the while not supporting your belief with scripture.

[harvey1]

God breathed life into adamah (clay), and then he took that adamah (clay with life) and made animals. Now, are you suggesting that God made animals from a human being?

Why would i even suggest that?

You said that I haven't explained that Adam was created from the adamah and how that can be compatible with evolution, but in actuality, you haven't explained how animals can be created from the same adamah that God breathed life. If Genesis is NOT talking about evolution, then you can't explain Gen.2 were God creates the animals from the adamah.

Just because Adam was made from the dust and the animals are also made from the ground does'nt mean evolution. If evolution was the method then God (Jesus) would have said from the animals I created man..not dust.

You are adding words that are not in Genesis. It clearly says:

"And the Lord God formed adamah of the slime of the adamah: and breathed into the face of it the breath of life, and adamah became a living thing." (Gen 2:7)

"And the Lord God having formed out of the adamah all the beasts of the field, and all the fowls of the air, and brought them to adamah to see what it would be called: for whatsoever adamah called any living thing the same is its name." (Gen 2:19)

First verse 7 shows the adamah being made into a living thing, and then in verse 19 the animals are created from the adamah of verse 7. The only explanation is evolution since the scriptures say God made the adamah into living thing, and then he made animals from it. That's evolution!

Also, Gen.2:4 very clearly says that the chapter will be about the generations of heavens and earth, which means a repeated cycle of life and death happening in the heavens and earth.

You are adding to the creation account based upon your faith in evolutionism all the while not supporting your belief with scripture.

I'm not adding. These are what the words mean.

[YEC]

harvey1:
irst verse 7 shows the adamah being made into a living thing, and then in verse 19 the animals are created from the adamah of verse 7. The only explanation is evolution since the scriptures say God made the adamah into living thing, and then he made animals from it. That's evolution!

All that verse show is that Adam and the animals were made from the same stuff...not that dirt evolved into an animal then humans were made from that animal.

[harvey1]

irst verse 7 shows the adamah being made into a living thing, and then in verse 19 the animals are created from the adamah of verse 7. The only explanation is evolution since the scriptures say God made the adamah into living thing, and then he made animals from it. That's evolution!

All that verse show is that Adam and the animals were made from the same stuff...not that dirt evolved into an animal then humans were made from that animal.

Yes, but adamah already had the breath of life breathed into it. That's why it doesn't speak of God having to breathe the breath of life AGAIN, because it already happened in verse 7. Again, it clearly shows that the animals came from the adamah with the breath of life (verse 7), therefore adamah is best understood as what Genesis says it is: clay that was used to make a living thing.

[YEC]

irst verse 7 shows the adamah being made into a living thing, and then in verse 19 the animals are created from the adamah of verse 7. The only explanation is evolution since the scriptures say God made the adamah into living thing, and then he made animals from it. That's evolution!

All that verse show is that Adam and the animals were made from the same stuff...not that dirt evolved into an animal then humans were made from that animal.

Yes, but adamah already had the breath of life breathed into it. That's why it doesn't speak of God having to breathe the breath of life AGAIN, because it already happened in verse 7. Again, it clearly shows that the animals came from the adamah with the breath of life (verse 7), therefore adamah is best understood as what Genesis says it is: clay that was used to make a living thing.

If this clearly shows as you claim...why can't I understand what you are saying?

Are you saying that the animals evolved from Adam?

[axeplayer]

i read a few of the posts and then i got sick. you evolutionists make me sick. there is absolutely NO evidence of evolution. A process like evolution doesn't just stop happening, and it is not happening today. There are ZERO written acounts or any accounts for that matter, that evolution is happening today or has happened EVER. evolution is just a big load of crap that Darwin made up because he's too lazy to live a moral life by being a christian. and with your THEORY of evolution, comes the THEORY of the big bang as well, i assume. lets talk about the big bang for a minute. you believe that all the matter in the universe was all drawn toward this one big mass. once all the matter in the universe got there, it basically exploded and the mass went everywhere, created the earth, mercury, venus, mars, jupiter, saturn (not to mention saturn's rings), uranus, neptune, pluto, grass, tress, water, rocks, volcanoes, coal, and, according to you, tiny little organisms that started the entire evolutionary process. THIS IS TOTALLY BOGUS. lets put this in layman's terms for a second. lets look at this metaphorically. lets say that this huge mass in the universe is a car. The car explodes. and according to your THEORY when the car explodes, it will create thousands of little tiny versions of the car, but they're more complex than the original car. IMPOSSIBLE. first off, in space its a vacuum. once the mass exploded, the fragments would continue to travel in their same direction for ETERNITY. they WOULD NOT suddenly change course and fuse together to form all of our complex organisms and such in nature today. to sum it up, evolution is horribly wrong.

[ENIGMA]

i read a few of the posts and then i got sick. you evolutionists make me sick. there is absolutely NO evidence of evolution. A process like evolution doesn't just stop happening, and it is not happening today. There are ZERO written acounts or any accounts for that matter, that evolution is happening today or has happened EVER. evolution is just a big load of crap that Darwin made up because he's too lazy to live a moral life by being a christian. and with your THEORY of evolution, comes the THEORY of the big bang as well, i assume. lets talk about the big bang for a minute. you believe that all the matter in the universe was all drawn toward this one big mass. once all the matter in the universe got there, it basically exploded and the mass went everywhere, created the earth, mercury, venus, mars, jupiter, saturn (not to mention saturn's rings), uranus, neptune, pluto, grass, tress, water, rocks, volcanoes, coal, and, according to you, tiny little organisms that started the entire evolutionary process. THIS IS TOTALLY BOGUS. lets put this in layman's terms for a second. lets look at this metaphorically. lets say that this huge mass in the universe is a car. The car explodes. and according to your THEORY when the car explodes, it will create thousands of little tiny versions of the car, but they're more complex than the original car. IMPOSSIBLE. first off, in space its a vacuum. once the mass exploded, the fragments would continue to travel in their same direction for ETERNITY. they WOULD NOT suddenly change course and fuse together to form all of our complex organisms and such in nature today. to sum it up, evolution is horribly wrong.

Too many posts like that can't be healthy for you.


Welcome to the forum, btw.

8)

[axeplayer]

[qoute="harvey1"]You are adding words that are not in Genesis. It clearly says:

"And the Lord God formed adamah of the slime of the adamah: and breathed into the face of it the breath of life, and adamah became a living thing." (Gen 2:7)

"And the Lord God having formed out of the adamah all the beasts of the field, and all the fowls of the air, and brought them to adamah to see what it would be called: for whatsoever adamah called any living thing the same is its name." (Gen 2:19)

First verse 7 shows the adamah being made into a living thing, and then in verse 19 the animals are created from the adamah of verse 7. The only explanation is evolution since the scriptures say God made the adamah into living thing, and then he made animals from it. That's evolution!

Also, Gen.2:4 very clearly says that the chapter will be about the generations of heavens and earth, which means a repeated cycle of life and death happening in the heavens and earth.[/qoute]

harvey1, you care to neglect the verses, and you care to neglect all of the possible translations of adamah. first of all, i dont even know what version of the Bible you are referring to, but i will answer you anyways.
adamah is the dust of the ground. verse 7 says God created man from the dust of the ground, or adamah. verse 19 says God created animals from the adamah, or the dust of the ground, which would make sense, since he made man the same way. even if you are correct in these translations, you are shooting yourself in the foot. the Bible says in verse 7 that God made man first. if you are correct (which your not) that animals came from adamah, then you are contradicting yourself. adamah according to you is man. if animals came from man, then its contradicting evolution, because if evolution happened (which it didn't) animals would come first, not man. You better get off the bus.....cuz you just got taken to school.