My Review of this forum

[OpenYourEyes]

Since this is the suggestions and comments section I figured I'll post a quick review of this forum site.

My experience here has been mixed and I gather it's because of some in the leadership, including the main owner are a bit sensitive towards the topic of homosexuality. I've encountered several instances of double standards, like my request for a member-created DISCUSSION subforum tailored for CHRISTIANS being denied while other members can create subforums on homosexuality that supports homosexuality and that's tailored for the LGBT. And keep in mind, the owner of this site thought that it was a problem for me to keep bringing up homosexuality in his regular debate threads.

otseng post #50:

I'm also beginning to get the impression that debating homosexuality is really what you are only after here. That in itself is not against the rules, but it's not going to garner respect from other forum members here.

I've already taken my concerns straight to the owner but some of his responses to me were less than civil.

I've had good experiences here whenever I post on other topics not involving homosexuality. And my convos on sexuality were always civil (at least on my end) and based on scientific evidence. So my advice is for Christians to limit themselves on posting too much on homosexuality otherwise you're at risk at not "garnering the respect" from the owner.

[Divine Insight]

I read your public exchange with the forum owner and I support the owner's decision to decline your request. I also agree with what he said about there already existing forums categories where you can discuss homosexuality. So it's not like you are being restricted from debating the issue.

In your conversation with the owner you said:
"I want the subforum tailored to Christians. You have a subforum on homosexuality tailored for the LGBT"

But your purpose was entirely different.

The LGBT forum clearly states that it is a "Refuge" for the group that it is supporting.

In your request for a sub-forum you wanted the following as a subtitle:

Subtitle: Refuting LGBT propaganda with Science

Therefore the forum that you had requested would not be a refuge or an honest unbiased discussion at all. Instead, you are clearly out to single out and attack the LGBT community proclaiming that you are refuting their "Propaganda".

That sounds to me like an "Attack Forum". Hardly a place for unbiased discussion. Nor is it a "Support Group" for Christians.

So I fully support the owner of this web site for rightfully rejecting your desire to attack the LGBT community in the name of "Christianity".

He most certainly did the right thing by declining your request.

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[OpenYourEyes]

I read your public exchange with the forum owner and I support the owner's decision to decline your request. I also agree with what he said about there already existing forums categories where you can discuss homosexuality. So it's not like you are being restricted from debating the issue.

In your conversation with the owner you said:
"I want the subforum tailored to Christians. You have a subforum on homosexuality tailored for the LGBT"

But your purpose was entirely different.

The LGBT forum clearly states that it is a "Refuge" for the group that it is supporting.

In your request for a sub-forum you wanted the following as a subtitle:

Subtitle: Refuting LGBT propaganda with Science

Therefore the forum that you had requested would not be a refuge or an honest unbiased discussion at all. Instead, you are clearly out to single out and attack the LGBT community proclaiming that you are refuting their "Propaganda".

That sounds to me like an "Attack Forum". Hardly a place for unbiased discussion. Nor is it a "Support Group" for Christians.

So I fully support the owner of this web site for rightfully rejecting your desire to attack the LGBT community in the name of "Christianity".

He most certainly did the right thing by declining your request.

~~~~~~

Perhaps this is where the misunderstanding comes in. I wanted a subforum that would equip Christians to respond to (you call it "attack") LGBT "propaganda" and not the gay people themselves. I'm only interested in refuting propaganda or popular/false claims that many in the LGBT community make, like sexual orientation being immutable, being gay is like being a certain race, etc, etc.

If you look at my head-to-head debate on homosexuality, you will see that I handle LGBT false claims with science. There is absolutely no bringing up of religion, personal motives, politics, the Bible, no ad hominems or emotional appeal.

[Divine Insight]

I'm only interested in refuting propaganda or popular/false claims that many in the LGBT community make, like sexual orientation being immutable, being gay is like being a certain race, etc, etc.

You're still doing the same thing. You want to start a forum that is specifically designed to attack the position of another group. That's not a valid reason to start a forum.

[Zzyzx]

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My experience here has been mixed and I gather it's because of some in the leadership, including the main owner are a bit sensitive towards the topic of homosexuality.

Those who join the Forum with an agenda of demeaning homosexuality and/or homosexuals are likely to become frustrated when that is not allowed.

I've already taken my concerns straight to the owner but some of his responses to me were less than civil.

Those who know Otseng find this doubtful. I have observed his actions from the perspective of a member (debating against him) and as a moderator (helping maintain civility of the Forum among other things). Incivility does not seem to be any part of his makeup.

Is "incivility" defined as "I didn't get my way"?

I've had good experiences here whenever I post on other topics not involving homosexuality.

Perhaps it would be prudent to avoid attempts to promote a personal agenda or obsession.

[Overcomer]

Zzyzx wrote:

Those who join the Forum with an agenda of demeaning homosexuality and/or homosexuals are likely to become frustrated when that is not allowed.

Unfortunately, on this forum, if one disagrees with the idea that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle and proceeds to present their reasons for that disagreement, even in a valid and polite way, they are told that they are "demeaning homosexuality".

This is supposed to be a forum where both sides of issues can be presented, is it not? That means that those who oppose homosexuality as a lifestyle should be allowed to present valid arguments against it, right?

Zzyzx wrote:

Perhaps it would be prudent to avoid attempts to promote a personal agenda or obsession

I'm sorry, but you yourself manifest a strong anti-Christian personal agenda and anti-Christian obsession. You have spent years writing post after post after post which demean God, Christians and Christianity. Why is it acceptable for you to insult those who don't agree with you? And how can you legitimately turn around and berate people for doing something that you yourself are guilty of?

[Zzyzx]

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Those who join the Forum with an agenda of demeaning homosexuality and/or homosexuals are likely to become frustrated when that is not allowed.

Unfortunately, on this forum, if one disagrees with the idea that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle and proceeds to present their reasons for that disagreement, even in a valid and polite way, they are told that they are "demeaning homosexuality".

The intent of this Forum is debate of religion – NOT anyone's personal relationships, lifestyle and/or sexual preferences.

Bigotry in any form is unwelcome.

This is supposed to be a forum where both sides of issues can be presented, is it not?

See above.

That means that those who oppose homosexuality as a lifestyle should be allowed to present valid arguments against it, right?

Wrong. We debate religious issues not lifestyle or personal preferences.

Homophobes are welcome to seek other websites that allow bashing of homosexuals / homosexuality (or other personal matters). Perhaps they will be more comfortable among cohorts.

Perhaps it would be prudent to avoid attempts to promote a personal agenda or obsession

I'm sorry, but you yourself manifest a strong anti-Christian personal agenda and anti-Christian obsession. You have spent years writing post after post after post which demean God, Christians and Christianity.

Being opposed to any religion is allowed and expected in these debates. None of the thousands of proposed "gods" or religions that worship them are immune from criticism or challenge.

I do NOT demean Christians (people / individuals) – and regard quite a few Christians as Forum Friends – even though we disagree theistically.

Some people, however, appear to think their chosen religion should be given special status (while often demeaning the religions of others) – and that any attack of religion is an attack upon them personally. Perhaps that is understandable for those heavily emotionally invested in their chosen belief system and worship practices / rituals. However, it is misplaced.

Why is it acceptable for you to insult those who don't agree with you?

If I EVER insult a person REPORT that as an infraction of Forum Rules. None of us are above Forum Rules.

And how can you legitimately turn around and berate people for doing something that you yourself are guilty of?

Kindly cite any such insulting (with quotation and URL).

[otseng]

I do not have time to respond to all the accusations made here against me, other moderators, and the forum.

I will just say this. We strive hard to be fair and balanced here on this forum. NO position is favored over another (whether it is pro-gay or anti-gay or whatever). This forum has been operating for 12 years and continues to grow. This is a testament to how things have been operating here. If anyone feels it is unfair here, I'm not going to justify how I make decisions. You are free to find another forum to debate on or go start your own forum.

[Zzyzx]

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If anyone feels it is unfair here, I'm not going to justify how I make decisions. You are free to find another forum to debate on or go start your own forum.

After observing Otseng's decisions for eight years, a couple as moderator, I have never considered him unfair or unjust (that said from "the other side of the theistic aisle").

Many who do not fare well in debate seem inclined to blame Admin and Moderators or Forum Rules, Guidelines and Policies RATHER than taking responsibility for their own failings or lack of success.

Those who think they have superior knowledge or ability often discover, to their chagrin, that they overestimated -- and look for excuses.