Debate

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Swami
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Debate

Post #1

Post by Swami »

For some reason, several members here seem to think that bullying people into endless debates is a good thing. These members do not realize that "debate" does not mean you're looking for truth. Many use it as a way to provide endless excuses to keep from being convinced.

I present my evidence by explaining my philosophy and experiences and getting others to experience it for themselves. Consider it my style of debate. If you don't like it then a civil option would be to not continue the discussion with me as opposed to trying to bait me into endless debates.

I want moderators to address this issue.

Example provided in post 4.
Last edited by Swami on Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Debate

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by Razorsedge]

Do you have a question for debate or is this a random observation/rant/testimony you wanted to share ?
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Re: Debate

Post #3

Post by Tcg »

Razorsedge wrote:
If you don't like it then a civil option would be to not continue the discussion with me as opposed to trying to bait me into endless debates.

This site was created for debate, thus the title, "Debating Christianity and Religion." You should not be surprised that posters in a site created for debate, attempt to engage you in debate.



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Re: Debate

Post #4

Post by Swami »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Razorsedge]

Do you have a question for debate or is this a random observation/rant/testimony you wanted to share ?
I just want the moderators to be aware of this issue.

I accept that this is a debate site but trying to dictate how someone debates or how long they should debate is abuse. It is a way of bullying.

I will give an example:
Believer/Mystic: Makes claim
Atheist: Can you verify?
Mystic: I explain the philosophy and reasons for my belief.
Atheist: Experience doesn't count. Or I disagree with your experience. Or Experience is not objective. I don't accept your philosophy. Can you verify your claim?
Mystic: I offer a way for the Atheist to experience my claims for himself (typically through meditation)
Atheist: I don't want meditation. I want proof.

At this point this becomes harassment when it turns into an endless cycle of asking for proof. If I've already offered the evidence and taken the extra mile to offer a way for the person to experience themselves. So why does the other person keep insisting on proof?

When I respectfully explain that I've presented all that I can and try to move on, the other person then attacks me for not wanting to engage them in an endless debate. Again, this is using debate to create abusive environment.

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Re: Debate

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Razorsedge wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Razorsedge]

Do you have a question for debate or is this a random observation/rant/testimony you wanted to share ?
I just want the moderators to be aware of this issue.

So there is no topic for debate here?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Debate

Post #6

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 4 by Razorsedge]
Atheist: I don't want meditation. I want proof.
Plenty of atheists, including yours truly, have literal years of meditation under their belt...and yet they and I do not agree with your claims.
At this point this becomes harassment when it turns into an endless cycle of asking for proof.
You're making claims about reality, saying X is true...on a debate website...and when others ask for evidence/proof...you have the sheer gall to complain that it's "harassment"?
Are people sending you constant private messages? Emails? Phone calls? Showing up at your house, place of work?
If I've already offered the evidence and taken the extra mile to offer a way for the person to experience themselves. So why does the other person keep insisting on proof?
Because what you claimed was evidence/proof of your claims does not do what you claimed it did. So we ask for more.
I meditate. I do not and have never experienced anything like you claim. So naturally, I or another person like me, am going to put you on the spot.
the other person then attacks me for not wanting to engage them in an endless debate.
I wouldn't say attack. It doesn't look like an attack from my point of view. Rather, it looks like you've made your claim, you've presented your so called evidence, and when this evidence was examined and found not to be up to snuff, rather than admit defeat and say you were wrong...you want your initial claim to stand without any defense?

JW says
So there is no topic for debate here?
Seems so. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets moved to "Comments, Suggestions, and Questions". All I'm seeing here is a person complaining that no-one believes him and that he shouldn't have to debate on a website dedicated to debate.
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Re: Debate

Post #7

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 4 by Razorsedge]
I accept that this is a debate site but trying to dictate how someone debates or how long they should debate is abuse. It is a way of bullying.
In debate, when one makes a claim and cannot substantiate, they should respectfully admit to it and then cease making the original claim.
Are you going to continue making the claim, continue saying to us to try meditation?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #8

Post by otseng »

It is not "bullying" to ask for evidence. It is in the rules:

5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim.

Now, the issue is what is evidence?

There's some guidelines here:
viewtopic.php?t=16903

I would suggest not using meditation as a source for evidence here. You may use it as for personal use and reflection, but nobody here would accept it.

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Re: Debate

Post #9

Post by benchwarmer »

Razorsedge wrote: If you don't like it then a civil option would be to not continue the discussion with me as opposed to trying to bait me into endless debates.
The answer is really quite simple. You present a claim and what you consider to be evidence. Other people ask for something they can verify. You don't want to provide anything else, so STOP engaging THEM. Let your initial claim and support stand.

Now, if you don't like that fact that your claim and evidence are subsequently questioned and/or dismissed that would be an issue for you and you have 2 options. Stop engaging as already suggested above, or attempt to provide more information and continue the debate on this debate site.

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Re: Debate

Post #10

Post by Swami »

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 4 by Razorsedge]
I accept that this is a debate site but trying to dictate how someone debates or how long they should debate is abuse. It is a way of bullying.
In debate, when one makes a claim and cannot substantiate, they should respectfully admit to it and then cease making the original claim.
Are you going to continue making the claim, continue saying to us to try meditation?
Those that I feel are dishonest and fight just to fight will be ignored. Some people will not accept no matter how much evidence you give them because their minds are already made up. I want honest discussion. I will continue to have honest discussion with those who are truly seeking to understand consciousness and are open to the Eastern perspective.

By the way, I can put you to many stories where people have had extraordinary experiences with meditation. The skepticism in your mind holds you back. When you meditate you have to let everything go.

Have a good day O:)

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