For some reason, several members here seem to think that bullying people into endless debates is a good thing. These members do not realize that "debate" does not mean you're looking for truth. Many use it as a way to provide endless excuses to keep from being convinced.
I present my evidence by explaining my philosophy and experiences and getting others to experience it for themselves. Consider it my style of debate. If you don't like it then a civil option would be to not continue the discussion with me as opposed to trying to bait me into endless debates.
I want moderators to address this issue.
Example provided in post 4.
Debate
Moderator: Moderators
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Re: Debate
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by Razorsedge]
Do you have a question for debate or is this a random observation/rant/testimony you wanted to share ?
Do you have a question for debate or is this a random observation/rant/testimony you wanted to share ?
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Debate
Post #3Razorsedge wrote:
If you don't like it then a civil option would be to not continue the discussion with me as opposed to trying to bait me into endless debates.
This site was created for debate, thus the title, "Debating Christianity and Religion." You should not be surprised that posters in a site created for debate, attempt to engage you in debate.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
Re: Debate
Post #4I just want the moderators to be aware of this issue.JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Razorsedge]
Do you have a question for debate or is this a random observation/rant/testimony you wanted to share ?
I accept that this is a debate site but trying to dictate how someone debates or how long they should debate is abuse. It is a way of bullying.
I will give an example:
Believer/Mystic: Makes claim
Atheist: Can you verify?
Mystic: I explain the philosophy and reasons for my belief.
Atheist: Experience doesn't count. Or I disagree with your experience. Or Experience is not objective. I don't accept your philosophy. Can you verify your claim?
Mystic: I offer a way for the Atheist to experience my claims for himself (typically through meditation)
Atheist: I don't want meditation. I want proof.
At this point this becomes harassment when it turns into an endless cycle of asking for proof. If I've already offered the evidence and taken the extra mile to offer a way for the person to experience themselves. So why does the other person keep insisting on proof?
When I respectfully explain that I've presented all that I can and try to move on, the other person then attacks me for not wanting to engage them in an endless debate. Again, this is using debate to create abusive environment.
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Re: Debate
Post #5Razorsedge wrote:I just want the moderators to be aware of this issue.JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Razorsedge]
Do you have a question for debate or is this a random observation/rant/testimony you wanted to share ?
So there is no topic for debate here?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Debate
Post #6[Replying to post 4 by Razorsedge]
Are people sending you constant private messages? Emails? Phone calls? Showing up at your house, place of work?
I meditate. I do not and have never experienced anything like you claim. So naturally, I or another person like me, am going to put you on the spot.
JW says
Plenty of atheists, including yours truly, have literal years of meditation under their belt...and yet they and I do not agree with your claims.Atheist: I don't want meditation. I want proof.
You're making claims about reality, saying X is true...on a debate website...and when others ask for evidence/proof...you have the sheer gall to complain that it's "harassment"?At this point this becomes harassment when it turns into an endless cycle of asking for proof.
Are people sending you constant private messages? Emails? Phone calls? Showing up at your house, place of work?
Because what you claimed was evidence/proof of your claims does not do what you claimed it did. So we ask for more.If I've already offered the evidence and taken the extra mile to offer a way for the person to experience themselves. So why does the other person keep insisting on proof?
I meditate. I do not and have never experienced anything like you claim. So naturally, I or another person like me, am going to put you on the spot.
I wouldn't say attack. It doesn't look like an attack from my point of view. Rather, it looks like you've made your claim, you've presented your so called evidence, and when this evidence was examined and found not to be up to snuff, rather than admit defeat and say you were wrong...you want your initial claim to stand without any defense?the other person then attacks me for not wanting to engage them in an endless debate.
JW says
Seems so. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets moved to "Comments, Suggestions, and Questions". All I'm seeing here is a person complaining that no-one believes him and that he shouldn't have to debate on a website dedicated to debate.So there is no topic for debate here?
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead
Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense
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Re: Debate
Post #7[Replying to post 4 by Razorsedge]
Are you going to continue making the claim, continue saying to us to try meditation?
In debate, when one makes a claim and cannot substantiate, they should respectfully admit to it and then cease making the original claim.I accept that this is a debate site but trying to dictate how someone debates or how long they should debate is abuse. It is a way of bullying.
Are you going to continue making the claim, continue saying to us to try meditation?
Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"
I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead
Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense
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Post #8
It is not "bullying" to ask for evidence. It is in the rules:
5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim.
Now, the issue is what is evidence?
There's some guidelines here:
viewtopic.php?t=16903
I would suggest not using meditation as a source for evidence here. You may use it as for personal use and reflection, but nobody here would accept it.
5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim.
Now, the issue is what is evidence?
There's some guidelines here:
viewtopic.php?t=16903
I would suggest not using meditation as a source for evidence here. You may use it as for personal use and reflection, but nobody here would accept it.
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Re: Debate
Post #9The answer is really quite simple. You present a claim and what you consider to be evidence. Other people ask for something they can verify. You don't want to provide anything else, so STOP engaging THEM. Let your initial claim and support stand.Razorsedge wrote: If you don't like it then a civil option would be to not continue the discussion with me as opposed to trying to bait me into endless debates.
Now, if you don't like that fact that your claim and evidence are subsequently questioned and/or dismissed that would be an issue for you and you have 2 options. Stop engaging as already suggested above, or attempt to provide more information and continue the debate on this debate site.
Re: Debate
Post #10Those that I feel are dishonest and fight just to fight will be ignored. Some people will not accept no matter how much evidence you give them because their minds are already made up. I want honest discussion. I will continue to have honest discussion with those who are truly seeking to understand consciousness and are open to the Eastern perspective.rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 4 by Razorsedge]
In debate, when one makes a claim and cannot substantiate, they should respectfully admit to it and then cease making the original claim.I accept that this is a debate site but trying to dictate how someone debates or how long they should debate is abuse. It is a way of bullying.
Are you going to continue making the claim, continue saying to us to try meditation?
By the way, I can put you to many stories where people have had extraordinary experiences with meditation. The skepticism in your mind holds you back. When you meditate you have to let everything go.
Have a good day