A moral question about rape

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Athetotheist
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A moral question about rape

Post #1

Post by Athetotheist »

I'm not sure if this is quite the right subforum for this, but I'm taking a guess that it is.

Assault is a violent move against someone. Rape takes assault to another level because, in the case of rape, the assault continues even when the assailant is no longer present; the victim's body is still being invaded.

Question for moral debate:

Given that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene, is someone who denies emergency contraception to the victim of a rape acting as an accessory to that rape?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #41

Post by Athetotheist »

William wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:26 pm
William wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:58 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:34 pm
William wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:27 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]

It is an interesting question.

Some women chose to keep their babies even though the fetus came about through an act of rape.

Therefore, the OPQ is redundant, because the claim "since rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene", is not able to be established or otherwise made as "a given".

Clearly is it not a 'given'.
If someone puts you in restraints to torture you and you choose to remain even though you could break the restraints and escape, the continued abuse is still an assault. And if a woman chooses to take a pregnancy to term after a rape, the rape----and its consequences----are still an assault. It's made an assault by the assailant's action, regardless of the victim's reaction to it.
You are thinking, and consequently arguing about this too narrowly.

The consequences of getting pregnant are the same whether the woman was raped or not. This is natural and there is no logical [or reasonable] cause to refer to a fetus as an assault, just because it was conceived through the act of rape.

Which was what I meant, when I wrote that some women chose to keep their babies even though the fetus came about through an act of rape.
I wasn't referring to the fetus as an assault; I was referring to the forced impregnation as an assault.
It looks to me that you were referring to the fetus, as you wrote;
the assault continues even when the assailant is no longer present; the victim's body is still being invaded.
If you look back at my OP, you'll see that I was raising the issue of emergency contraception.

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #42

Post by William »

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #41]
If you look back at my OP, you'll see that I was raising the issue of emergency contraception.
Yes I do see that. My focus is on the first part of the QFD;
Given that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene,
In what way are you meaning the assault "continues even after the assailant leaves the scene" ?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #43

Post by Athetotheist »

William wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:33 pm [Replying to Athetotheist in post #41]
If you look back at my OP, you'll see that I was raising the issue of emergency contraception.
Yes I do see that. My focus is on the first part of the QFD;
Given that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene,
In what way are you meaning the assault "continues even after the assailant leaves the scene" ?
Think about the purpose of emergency contraception and the answer will come to you.

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #44

Post by William »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:55 am
William wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:33 pm [Replying to Athetotheist in post #41]
If you look back at my OP, you'll see that I was raising the issue of emergency contraception.
Yes I do see that. My focus is on the first part of the QFD;
Given that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene,
In what way are you meaning the assault "continues even after the assailant leaves the scene" ?
Think about the purpose of emergency contraception and the answer will come to you.
Okay - I did that, but 'the answer' has not come to me.

Perhaps if you just give me the answer yourself?
Why do you write that the assault continues even after the assailant leaves the scene?

Are you suggesting that the raped woman who seeks out a pill to increase her chances of not becoming pregnant from the assault, is an assailant against the natural process of impregnation?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #45

Post by Athetotheist »

William wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:56 am
Athetotheist wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:55 am
William wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:33 pm [Replying to Athetotheist in post #41]
If you look back at my OP, you'll see that I was raising the issue of emergency contraception.
Yes I do see that. My focus is on the first part of the QFD;
Given that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene,
In what way are you meaning the assault "continues even after the assailant leaves the scene" ?
Think about the purpose of emergency contraception and the answer will come to you.
Okay - I did that, but 'the answer' has not come to me.

Perhaps if you just give me the answer yourself?
Why do you write that the assault continues even after the assailant leaves the scene?

Are you suggesting that the raped woman who seeks out a pill to increase her chances of not becoming pregnant from the assault, is an assailant against the natural process of impregnation?
The rapist forces the "natural process of impregnation" on her. Are you suggesting that human life begins before conception?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #46

Post by William »

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #45]
The rapist forces the "natural process of impregnation" on her.
Yes - I have not said otherwise.
Are you suggesting that human life begins before conception?
No. Why do you ask?

Are you able to answer my question as to why you wrote that the assault continues even after the assailant leaves the scene?

As I pointed out in prior posts - the statement implies that the newly forming embryo [which natural forms into a fetus which can then be born] is an ongoing assault and I see no rational reason for this being true.

I can understand why some rape victims might see it that way and abort the process, but as I mentioned in my first post, there are also rape victims who do not see it that way and thus it is not a 'given' that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene.

At what point does the process stop being an 'ongoing assault' for rape victims who choose to be the incubators of an embryo created, taken to full term, given birth to?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #47

Post by Athetotheist »

William wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:45 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #45]
The rapist forces the "natural process of impregnation" on her.
Yes - I have not said otherwise.
Are you suggesting that human life begins before conception?
No. Why do you ask?

Are you able to answer my question as to why you wrote that the assault continues even after the assailant leaves the scene?

As I pointed out in prior posts - the statement implies that the newly forming embryo [which natural forms into a fetus which can then be born] is an ongoing assault and I see no rational reason for this being true.

I can understand why some rape victims might see it that way and abort the process, but as I mentioned in my first post, there are also rape victims who do not see it that way and thus it is not a 'given' that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene.

At what point does the process stop being an 'ongoing assault' for rape victims who choose to be the incubators of an embryo created, taken to full term, given birth to?
You seem to be implying that I'm conflating what is conceived with the forced conception. I am not, but no choice of the woman makes it right for the assailant to have forced her to make that choice in the first place.

Let me turn the tables: if a rape victim chooses not to be impregnated and seeks emergency contraception, how is the assault not continuing until she gets it?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #48

Post by William »

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #47]
You seem to be implying that I'm conflating what is conceived with the forced conception. I am not
I don't see that you are not. There is no difference between "conceived" and "conceived". The only difference is in how the conception took place.

The act of rape we agree, is forced. The result [conception] of the act is natural, and needn't be confused with being a continuation of the act of assault. My argument is that is is not a given as the OPQ implies as a premise.

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #49

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to William in post #48]
There is no difference between "conceived" and "conceived".
There is a difference between that which is conceived and the impetus of the conception.

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