Forced vaccinations

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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nobspeople
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Forced vaccinations

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

With the increase of COVID infections lately, some places are forcing their employees to get vaccinated against COVID.

Is this the right thing to do, or no?
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nobspeople
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Re: Forced vaccinations

Post #51

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:45 pm
nobspeople wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:21 amPeople existed long before an economy existed.
Yes, and cells existed before people. And people existed before the Borg.

In both cases, the top-level organisational structure becomes overriding in importance. I don't often think of the wellbeing of one of my single cells, and the Borg don't care about what happens to one of their drones.

And if I don't serve the Bor- *cough* I mean, the Economy and produce something it wants, I starve, and too bad. The Economy doesn't care about me as an individual.
Of course it doesn't care - it's a man made thing without emotion.
I just don't see the economy as being as you described in total. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree
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Ionian_Tradition
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Re: Forced vaccinations

Post #52

Post by Ionian_Tradition »

Diogenes wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:54 pm [Replying to Ionian_Tradition in post #6]
I take it to be a self-evident truth of medical ethics that it is generally immoral for anyone in a position of power to coerce another (by means of threat or intimidation) to undergo a medical procedure they would not otherwise willing consent to (as a matter of conscience, aversion, or personal fear).
There could be a tiny bit of truth to this, if those so 'coerced' were willing to remain in quarantine indefinitely. But the usual case is that they refuse to protect their brethren by self isolation. They insist on enjoying the fruits of society without accepting the burdens imposed. By what possible measure does anyone, Christian or Infidel, insist on presenting themselves as a risk of death or discomfort to others for any reason, whether ignorance or claim of religion?
I see no obvious reason why the unvaccinated should not claim reasonable entitlement to certain "fruits" of society...Particularly when it is, in part, their very own labor which allows for society to actually exist and therefore bear fruit of any kind. To cite refusal to undergo vaccination specifically as just grounds for precluding one from participating in society indefinitely seems to me a far greater ethical violation than the one you suggest ought to be laid at the feet the willfully unvaccinated. This becomes particularly evident when one considers the reality of large-scale natural immunity acquired over the two-year period the virus has been circulating through the population, as well as the recognized efficacy of our current vaccines in reducing death and serious illness among the vaccinated.

But ethical misgivings aside, consider the extreme infeasibility of requesting the not insubstantial portion of the population who refuse to vaccinate to simply remain quarantined for the rest of their living days. In addition, to the severe emotional and psychological impact such fantastic measures would have on the unvaccinated and their friends/loved ones (vaccinated or otherwise), consider the sizable economic and infrastructural disruptions which would necessarily ensue if the unvaccinated did as you seem to believe they are morally obliged to do and simply ceased participating in normal society. I dare say your proposed cure would (in the long term) prove far worse than the disease it purports to treat.
Diogenes wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:54 pm There is legal precedent for imposing vaccinations. The smallpox pandemic inspired the Supreme Court ruling in Jacobson v Massachusetts,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts.
There is, therefore, no legal obstacle to imposing vaccinations.
The recent SCOTUS ruling would seem to suggest the opposite...Particularly with respect to Federally imposed vaccine mandates which apply to the general public.
Diogenes wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:54 pm What of the moral or ethical issues? A Christian need look no farther than the 'Great Commandment,' that one should do for others, what one wants done to oneself. Why would any moral person not want to protect others from a dangerous virus by the simple expedient of a free and safe vaccination?
Strange that you should cite Christian moral precepts here as if opposition to a government/employer-imposed vaccine mandate were somehow a uniquely Christian phenomenon. I believe a more careful treatment of the issue will acknowledge that opposition to the mandates can be found among a variety of religious persuasions, as well as among those who have no persuasion at all.

But to address your appeal to the Golden Rule specifically, it is by no means obvious that your interpretation of how the rule should be applied in our present context is indeed correct. After all, one could reasonably argue that because coercing others (by means of threat or intimidation) to undergo a medical procedure they would not otherwise willingly consent to (as a matter of conscience, aversion, or personal fear) is precisely what they would NOT have done to themselves, mandates which work to this affect should therefore be considered a patent violation of the Golden Rule.

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Purple Knight
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Re: Forced vaccinations

Post #53

Post by Purple Knight »

Ionian_Tradition wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:58 amBut ethical misgivings aside, consider the extreme infeasibility of requesting the not insubstantial portion of the population who refuse to vaccinate to simply remain quarantined for the rest of their living days.
At the point that you require them to work and provide for themselves (somehow) while not letting them outside of their own house, that's when the equation becomes reversed: Now it is the sanitary party benefiting from the fruits of the unvaccinated while not having to engage in any quid-pro-quo.

I think the objecting party always has a right to whatever they would have if the new-measure party was never present.

Let's say people develop superpowers and some of them can fly. The flying ones say, we need pedestrian rights-of-way against airplanes, basically, we want the whole sky. Yeah that's a no. Either be very very aware at all times since airplanes might be difficult to hear coming, or fly lower.

Let's even look at murderers. If they lived where murder was not illegal, eventually all the non-murderous people would be dead and the murderers would live amongst eachother. Well, that's what prison is. The only reason free room and board sucks in a world where securing that is the first thing on most peoples' minds, is the other people there. You could make a case that they should get more space, however, since they'd have that naturally. Well, that's what Australia once was.

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Rose2020
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Re: Forced vaccinations

Post #54

Post by Rose2020 »

All I can say is that I am so glad I was fully vaccinated. I got sick with covid earlier this year and was really quite ill, it is a nasty thing. Yet I recovered without needing hospital and I am certain that is due to vaccination.
I cannot imagine risking myself deliberately, by refusing the vaccines.
Many many died at the beginning of this pandemic because they had no choice. We have a choice.

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