Circumcision

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Rose2020
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Circumcision

Post #1

Post by Rose2020 »

Why was and is it so important to so many?
Reading 1 Corinthians 7, verses 17-24, Paul regards it as unimportant. Far more important is obedience to God. He was speaking sense.

I always regard maiming the body in any way as horrible. Being of an older generation I personally dislike piercings, tatoos and the like as repulsive and rarely enhancing to anyone's looks! That is another subject.
But circumcision is fascinating, it is done on a part of the body hardly anyone will ever see. How barbaric it is to do it to babies, inflict pain on them - unless for sound health reasons. Awful for grown boys or men.

However, the symbolism of it is very important to Jews and Muslims. Why?

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Difflugia
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Re: Circumcision

Post #2

Post by Difflugia »

Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:07 amHowever, the symbolism of it is very important to Jews and Muslims. Why?
The short answer is becase God said so. As a ritual, it makes no more or less sense than baptism or the Eucharist, but is just something that tradition claims is commanded by God.

A more interesting question is when and why it became a ritual performed on infants. Most cultures that practice circumcision do it as a puberty rite. There seems to be some hint of that in the very weird Exodus 4:24-26:
On the way at a lodging place, Yahweh met Moses and wanted to kill him. Then Zipporah took a flint, cut off the foreskin of her son, and touched it to his feet [or genitals]. Then she said, “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me.”

So he let him alone. Then she said, “You are a bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision.
Apparently Moses was supposed to be a "bridegroom of blood," but wasn't and Yahweh wanted to put him to death because of it. The circumcision of the infant son was therefore a proxy for Moses' circumcision, made complete by the touching of the infant's foreskin to Moses' genitals.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Circumcision

Post #3

Post by Rose2020 »

Yuk! That's horrible and I have never been able to make sense of this in the Bible. How awful it is for a man to be cut there, how terrifying for a male child.
It is barbaric, to me.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: Circumcision

Post #4

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:46 am Yuk! That's horrible and I have never been able to make sense of this in the Bible. How awful it is for a man to be cut there, how terrifying for a male child.
It is barbaric, to me.
Nor me, until quite recently.

I find the fact that a new "religion" springing from Jews in Palestine 2,000 years ago, initially led by Jews under the leadership of Jesus (A Jew, regarded as very knowledgeable it seems) to suddenly renounce circumcision as unimportant and that Gentiles can join with Jews, almost inconceivable.

The procedure itself is described in Gen
You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.
and its necessity:
Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
The dismissing of circumcision as relevant goes against the most basic tenets of Judaism, yet it happened, Jews themselves made the decision (Jesus said nothing about abandoning circumcision).

So the abandonment of circumcision is the sign, the sign that Jesus is the son of God, was resurrected and the Gospel record is true, only something truly supernatural could lead Jews to undergo such a change in their beliefs.

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Re: Circumcision

Post #5

Post by Rose2020 »

Two paths happened, one led by Paul, the other by James, Jesus's brother I understand.

I love Paul's way, his writings resonate deeply with me.

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Re: Circumcision

Post #6

Post by Miles »

.

Not that I'm necessarily for circumcision, although having been circumcised I did fit in with the rest of guys, but there are reasons cited for having it done: From the Mayo Clinic. Please note the "might."

"Circumcision might have various health benefits, including:

Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. However, boys with uncircumcised penises can be taught to wash regularly beneath the foreskin.

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in males is low, but these infections are more common in uncircumcised males. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later.

Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. Circumcised men might have a lower risk of certain sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Still, safe sexual practices remain essential.

Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis can be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can lead to inflammation of the foreskin or head of the penis.

Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men. In addition, cervical cancer is less common in the female sexual partners of circumcised men.
source

I recall when in the army one of he guys mentioning that before he got married he was getting circumcised because he had heard it would make his penis more sensitive. I and the others around him didn't say a thing, he was sort of a blow-hard know-it-all, but I did raise my eyebrows in disbelief and left it at that.




.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: Circumcision

Post #7

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:37 pm .

Not that I'm necessarily for circumcision, although having been circumcised I did fit in with the rest of guys, but there are reasons cited for having it done: From the Mayo Clinic. Please note the "might."

"Circumcision might have various health benefits, including:

Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. However, boys with uncircumcised penises can be taught to wash regularly beneath the foreskin.

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in males is low, but these infections are more common in uncircumcised males. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later.

Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. Circumcised men might have a lower risk of certain sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Still, safe sexual practices remain essential.

Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis can be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can lead to inflammation of the foreskin or head of the penis.

Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men. In addition, cervical cancer is less common in the female sexual partners of circumcised men.
source

I recall when in the army one of he guys mentioning that before he got married he was getting circumcised because he had heard it would make his penis more sensitive. I and the others around him didn't say a thing, he was sort of a blow-hard know-it-all, but I did raise my eyebrows in disbelief and left it at that.




.
The foreskin surely evolved for a reason? it is present in many animals, we do not circumcise pets or farm animals where this purported "hygiene" benefit would surely be valued? There is nothing intrinsically unhygienic about human sexual organs, people wash - or should - any part of their body that could lead to unpleasant odors most of us do this every time we shower. Even ill informed opinions about "smegma" are laughable, smegma is produced by the human body (diminishing as one ages) for a biological reason.

There is a lobby in the US advocating for the procedure on "health grounds" but it is peculiar to the US, no other advanced nation shares this obsession with baby mutilation.

Consider:
Believe it or not, smegma production is actually vital to good penile health and satisfactory sexual performance. Fresh smegma is actually smooth and moist and aids in lubricating movement of the foreskin over the glans penis during sexual intercourse. This is very important as without it the resultant friction would result in dermal (skin) abrasion, leading to pain and soreness in some of the most sensitive areas on the body.

As well as aiding in sexual function, smegma protects the penis and clitoris by preventing it from adhering to the adjacent skin and allows for seamless retraction of the foreskin during activities such as urination.
From: What is Smegma?

The substance itself is odorless unless left to remain for days on end, daily cleansing eliminates all and any odor concerns as any woman knows.

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Re: Circumcision

Post #8

Post by Miles »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:06 am
Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:37 pm .

Not that I'm necessarily for circumcision, although having been circumcised I did fit in with the rest of guys, but there are reasons cited for having it done: From the Mayo Clinic. Please note the "might."

"Circumcision might have various health benefits, including:

Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. However, boys with uncircumcised penises can be taught to wash regularly beneath the foreskin.

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in males is low, but these infections are more common in uncircumcised males. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later.

Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. Circumcised men might have a lower risk of certain sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Still, safe sexual practices remain essential.

Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis can be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can lead to inflammation of the foreskin or head of the penis.

Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men. In addition, cervical cancer is less common in the female sexual partners of circumcised men.
source

I recall when in the army one of he guys mentioning that before he got married he was getting circumcised because he had heard it would make his penis more sensitive. I and the others around him didn't say a thing, he was sort of a blow-hard know-it-all, but I did raise my eyebrows in disbelief and left it at that.




.
The foreskin surely evolved for a reason? it is present in many animals, we do not circumcise pets or farm animals where this purported "hygiene" benefit would surely be valued? There is nothing intrinsically unhygienic about human sexual organs, people wash - or should - any part of their body that could lead to unpleasant odors most of us do this every time we shower. Even ill informed opinions about "smegma" are laughable, smegma is produced by the human body (diminishing as one ages) for a biological reason.

There is a lobby in the US advocating for the procedure on "health grounds" but it is peculiar to the US, no other advanced nation shares this obsession with baby mutilation.
Don't know what falls under your definition of "advanced nation," but here are those countries and territories that exceed the United States percentage of 71.2 percent (66 in all)


"Percentage of circumcised males in each of the 237 countries and territories in the world"

Afghanistan 99.8
Algeria 97.9
American Samoa 95
Azerbaijan 98.5
Bahrain 81.2
Bangladesh 93.2
Burkin Faso 88.3
Cameroon 94.0
Chad 73.5
Cocos (Keeling) 95
Djibouti 96.5
Egypt 94.7
Equatorial Guinea 87
Eritrea 97.2
Ethiopia 92.2
Gabon 99.2
Gambia, The 94.5
Ghana 91.6
Guam 95
Guinea 84.2
Guinea-Bissau 93.3
Indonesia 92.5
Iran 99.7
Iraq 98.9
Israel 91.7
Jordan 98.8
Kenya 91.2
Kosovo Islands 91.7
Kuwait 86.4
Kyrgyzstan 91.9
Liberia 97.7
Libya 96.6
Madagascar 94.7
Maldives 98.4
Mali 86
Mauritania 99.2
Morocco 99.9
Nauru 95
Niger 95.5
Nigeria 98.9
Niue 95
Northern Mariana 90
Oman 87.7
Pakistan 96.4
Palau 95
Philippines 91.7
Qatar 77.5
Samoa 95
Saudi Arabia 97.1
Senegal 93.5
Sierra Leone 96.1
Solomon Islands 95
Somalia 93.5
Syria 92.8
Tajikistan 99
Togo 95.2
Tokelau 95
Tonga 95
Tunisia 99.8
Turkey 98.6
Tuvalu 95
Uzbekistan 96.5
Vanuatu 95
West Bank 99.9
Western Sahara 99.6
Yemen 99.0

source

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Re: Circumcision

Post #9

Post by chrisue »

Thanks for sharing the information.

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Re: Circumcision

Post #10

Post by chrisue »

The explanation is very clear: What is circumcision? Circumcision is the surgical removal of the layer of skin, called the foreskin, that covers the glans (head) of the penis.

Circumcision Surgery on newborns may be performed after 24 hours of birth. Circumcision can also be performed on older children and would require general anesthesia. However, recovery may take longer when circumcision is done on an older child. Source, Circumcision.

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