IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

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acehighinfinity
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IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #1

Post by acehighinfinity »

[Replying to post 106 by Divine Insight]
DIVINE INSIGHT:
Moreover, I find the verse that you have posted to be quite interesting and I use it frequently to defend my witchcraft against Christian criticism. The Christians often claim that witches get their power from Satan (just as Jesus had been accused of in the verse you've quoted).

However, like Jesus I use my powers for good works. Therefore, for the very same reasons that Jesus gave my powers cannot come from Beelzebub (or Satan) because a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Therefore my powers necessarily must come from God, for precisely the same reasons that Jesus gave.

If what Jesus spoke is truth, then clearly it must also apply to me. I cannot do good works in the name of Beelzebub, demons, or Satan because that would be a house divided against itself.

So I find it rather humorous that Jesus himself has totally vindicated all witches who do good works. Because their power (according to Jesus) can only come from God. Only God's power can be used for good works.
I would like to invite you here DIVINE INSIGHT
The above post caught my attention and I would like to bring this to the light. Now in another thread I am under the impression you study Buddhism but claim not to be a Buddhist, correct?

I am totally against WitchCraft according to the Holy Bible:
Deuteronomy 18:14 "The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so."
Revelation 22:15 "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Leviticus 19:26 "Do not practice divination or seek omens"

...the list goes on.

Questions:
If Divine Insight claim to use WitchCraft for good, then could you or anyone else list those examples please?
Does one see WitchCraft as Good? or
Does one see WitchCraft as Evil?

Feel free to add on.

Thanks in advance,
Ace

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Post #101

Post by Divine Insight »

jgh7 wrote: Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Wouldn't Christianity view Wicca as evil simply because they worship other gods and spirits? Isn't that considered evil in Christianity?
Christianity views everyone to be evil who doesn't worship their jealous God. But Jesus disagreed. Jesus own excuse must necessarily apply to everyone if it's a value excuse for him.

Jesus claimed that he can't be obtaining his power from Satan because he was doing good works and if he obtained his power from Satan to do good works then Satan's house would be divided against itself and fall.

So if this excuse is valid for Jesus then it necessarily must be valid for anyone who uses magick to do good works.
jgh7 wrote: Actually, do Wiccans worship other gods and spirits?
Just as the Christians are divided over how to think of Jesus and Yahweh, Wiccans also have different views on how to view gods and spirits.

Some Wicca's do view the gods and spirits polytheistically just as some Christians view Jesus as being the polytheistic Son of Yahweh. The Gospels themselves treat Jesus as being as separate entity from the Father God, they have Jesus ascending to heaven to sit at the right-hand of the Father God, not being the Father God.

Other Wiccans are more monotheistic, or pantheistic to be more correct, which is the ultimate monotheism. And they see all divine power coming from a single source. Just as the Christians imagine there to be Angels, and Saints who can be vessels of God's power, so too the Wiccans imagine similar types of entities.

So actually Wicca isn't all that much different from Christianity in terms of the overall monotheistic view. It's just that Wicca doesn't imagine the creator god to be a misogynistic jealous dictator like the Christians do.

The Wiccans thing far more highly of the creator God. ;)

But whatever they think, Jesus necessarily must stand behind the ones who do good works as having obtained their power from God. There's nothing else Jesus could do since that was his very own defense when charged with doing his magick in by the power of Satan.

If Jesus defense is true for him, then it necessarily must be true for everyone. ;)

So Jesus stands behind the Wiccans who perform good magick. He has no choice but to stand behind them. To do anything less would violate his own defense against those very same charges.
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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #102

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by acehighinfinity]

I personally believe it is evil. The reason for this is that I believe the bible which condemn such practises.


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http://wol.jw.org/fr/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2000241
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #103

Post by McCulloch »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by acehighinfinity]

I personally believe it is evil. The reason for this is that I believe the bible which condemn such practises.
Not to put too fine a point on it but don't you also find blood transfusions, birthday and Christmas celebrations, flags and national anthems evil too?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
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The truth will make you free.
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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #104

Post by OnceConvinced »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by acehighinfinity]

I personally believe it is evil. The reason for this is that I believe the bible which condemn such practises.
I had a debate about this with my mother not that long ago about how the Christian view on witchcraft is far from what it is in reality. They have allowed Hollywood to taint their views on what witchcraft actually is. The reality is they are decent and moral people. There may be a few extreme ones that practise evil acts, but then that is the case with Christianity too. But does that mean they are true witches?

Like DI said, if someone is doing good acts then they can't be of Satan, because that would be Satan going up against himself, right? He'd be shooting himself in the foot. It would be a kingdom divided.

After a short debate with my mum, she then came up with the old "Because the bible says so" argument. That's when the debate is over, because that's when it's time to switch off your brain and just accept scripture blindly. But I won't do that. I won't just switch off my brain.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #105

Post by JehovahsWitness »

OnceConvinced wrote:After a short debate with my mum, she then came up with the old "Because the bible says so" argument.
No one can deny your mother is absolutely right, the bible DOES contain mandates to avoid witchcraft. That is a fact.
LEVITICUS 19:26
You must not practice magic.

DEUTERONOMY 18:10,11
There should not be found in you . . . a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium.�

LEVITICUS 20:27
As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.

1 CHRON 16:26
All the gods of the peoples are worthless gods, But Jehovah is the one who made the heavens.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #106

Post by OnceConvinced »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
OnceConvinced wrote:After a short debate with my mum, she then came up with the old "Because the bible says so" argument.
No one can deny your mother is absolutely right, the bible DOES contain mandates to avoid witchcraft. That is a fact.
LEVITICUS 19:26
You must not practice magic.

DEUTERONOMY 18:10,11
There should not be found in you . . . a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium.�

LEVITICUS 20:27
As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.

1 CHRON 16:26
All the gods of the peoples are worthless gods, But Jehovah is the one who made the heavens.

I am well aware of what the bible says about witchcraft and I am not disputing that the bible writers were against it. I would expect them to be against it. What I am arguing is that as soon as you say "the bible says so" then you are expecting everybody to switch of their brains. It means all reasoning comes to an end and everyone just accepts unverified ancient writings. That to me is embracing ignorance.

The bible may say witchcraft is evil but that doesn't mean it is. What I see when I read those verses are decrees made by people who hated or did not understand this religion for which they condemned. Because witches weren't worshiping their god and because they did odd things that the Jews didn't agree with, or did things they couldn't explain by natural means. So they condemned and demonised the witches. Pretty standard of religious folk these days. See something that can't be explained so put it down to either God or the devil, without investigating it further.

To me the bible is not the word of god, but that of ignorant and often prejudiced man.

You also need to realise that things like magic and sorcery aren't actually supernatural. They are simply tricks and illusions. That has been well and truly revealed in the last 20-30 years. There is no more need to believe in such nonsense anymore. However back in biblical days ignorant man could not fathom how certain tricks were done, so put it down to "magic" and "sorcery".

Even mediums have been exposed as frauds in this day and age. There is no evidence that any of it is real.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #107

Post by Divine Insight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: LEVITICUS 20:27
As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.
And so do you support this biblical teaching?

Would you support capital punishment for anyone who offers to predict the future? :-k

If you believe in this horrific Bible you most certainly should demand it in the name of your God.

Otherwise, you aren't supporting this nonsense at all.

I claim that most religious people wouldn't support the Bible at all when it really comes down to it. And those who would should be considered to be extremely dangerous.
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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #108

Post by bluethread »

Divine Insight wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: LEVITICUS 20:27
As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.
And so do you support this biblical teaching?

Would you support capital punishment for anyone who offers to predict the future? :-k

If you believe in this horrific Bible you most certainly should demand it in the name of your God.
I'm not sure what version you are using, but it is a paraphrase at best. Making a point based on a specific word from a paraphrase is a clear misuse of that paraphrase.

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Post #109

Post by Peds nurse »

Divine Insight wrote:
bluethread wrote: We also need to be clear on the definition of evil. The word for evil in HaTorah is 'ra. That would be the deity of eygpt. The implication is that the ways of Eygpt, ie. the world, is what the Scriptures mean when it speaks of evils. Evil is that which is not according to Adonai's ways. The Hebrew word translated as magician is chartom. It refers to a wide variety of activities, generally associated with false deities and spirits. One of those activities is witchcraft (Qecem). more rightly called devination or necromancy. Two good examples are those who attempted to interpret Pharoah's dream and those who attempted to copy the plagues.

Adonai's people are permitted to be involved in the supernatural. In fact, they are often criticized by scientific humanist for doing so. What differentiates the prophets and miracle workers of Adonai from magicians and necromancers is the source of there power. A prophet and miracle worker of Adonai is willing to bet his life on the fact that what he is doing is from the Ruach HaChedosh Adonai(Holy Spirit of Adonai) and no one else.
You seem to be missing the whole point here. You are making up your own definitions based on your own interpretations of various things. But that's not the point here.
Divine Insight wrote:The point here is that Jesus was being accused of conducting his magic by the power of Satan. And Jesus defensive argument was that he does good works and therefore his power cannot have come from Satan because a house divided against itself would fall.

If that's a valid defense for Jesus, then it must be a valid defense for all who do good works. And if it's not a valid defense for all who do good works, then neither could it be a valid defense for Jesus.

So, in other words, if it works for Jesus it necessarily must also work for Wiccans. It can't be a valid defensive argument for Jesus but not for Wiccans.
Hey DI, my wonderful friend!

That isn't what Jesus said, DI. The Pharisees were accusing Jesus of casting out demons in the name of Beelzebul, the Prince of demons. This is when Jesus said, that a house divided against itself will not stand, for how can Satan drive out Satan?

Do have a glorious day!!

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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #110

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Divine Insight wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: LEVITICUS 20:27
As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.
And so do you support this biblical teaching?
Yes I support all bible teachings. They don't all apply to me or my time and context but I believe everything in the bible is the word of God and He has my wholehearted support for all He has ever done or said.
Divine Insight wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: LEVITICUS 20:27
As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.
Would you support capital punishment for anyone who offers to predict the future? :-k.
Today? No because applying that law to the Christian era is not, in my opinon, a bible teaching.
Divine Insight wrote:If you believe in this horrific Bible you most certainly should demand it in the name of your God.
In your opinion. You are aware I hope that your opinion is not the only one possible.

Divine Insight wrote: Otherwise, you aren't supporting this nonsense at all.
Ditto


Always a pleasure, have a blessed day!


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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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