IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

[acehighinfinity]

[Replying to post 106 by Divine Insight]
DIVINE INSIGHT:

Moreover, I find the verse that you have posted to be quite interesting and I use it frequently to defend my witchcraft against Christian criticism. The Christians often claim that witches get their power from Satan (just as Jesus had been accused of in the verse you've quoted).

However, like Jesus I use my powers for good works. Therefore, for the very same reasons that Jesus gave my powers cannot come from Beelzebub (or Satan) because a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Therefore my powers necessarily must come from God, for precisely the same reasons that Jesus gave.

If what Jesus spoke is truth, then clearly it must also apply to me. I cannot do good works in the name of Beelzebub, demons, or Satan because that would be a house divided against itself.

So I find it rather humorous that Jesus himself has totally vindicated all witches who do good works. Because their power (according to Jesus) can only come from God. Only God's power can be used for good works.

I would like to invite you here DIVINE INSIGHT
The above post caught my attention and I would like to bring this to the light. Now in another thread I am under the impression you study Buddhism but claim not to be a Buddhist, correct?

I am totally against WitchCraft according to the Holy Bible:
Deuteronomy 18:14 "The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so."
Revelation 22:15 "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Leviticus 19:26 "Do not practice divination or seek omens"
...the list goes on.

Questions:
If Divine Insight claim to use WitchCraft for good, then could you or anyone else list those examples please?
Does one see WitchCraft as Good? or
Does one see WitchCraft as Evil?

Feel free to add on.

Thanks in advance,
Ace

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 129 by Divine Insight]

Wiccans use "Spiritual Power" just like Jesus did.

So yes, biblically speaking, Jesus' power came from a Spirit. Wiccans powers come from spirits. However, all spirits are not equal. All spirits are not good. Not all spirits that CLAIM to be good ... are in fact good.

The Spirit that gave Jesus his power was that of Jehovah God His Father and the Creator of the universe. The spirit(s) that give modern day Wiccan their power (if they have them) is from Satan the Devil and his demons. Demons have perfected the art of human manipulation, leaving people , at least after initial contacts with feelings of wellbeing... (it's not unusal for people to refer to seeing light, feeling pleasure, having very positive physical sensations, when having contact with demons (disguised of course as "white" spirits)).

According to the Christians then Jesus was necessarily a witch too since he also did magical things using spiritual powers.

Biblically speaking a "witch" would be someone that entreats power, favor or positive communication from demons. Thus biblically Jesus was not a "witch". He sought power from His Father, Jehovah and never pandered favor from Satan or the demons.

And besides, all of this comes down to your belief in "Witches". Do you actually believe that witches can wield spiritual magical powers?

Whether I do or not is ultimately irrelevant. The purpose of this series of posts is present scriptural evidence that there is no justification for a division between "good" "white" witches and "evil" bad ones. To assert that white witchcraft is at the least just another false religion, and at worse a vehicle by which people are made vulnerable to deceptive spirits that will manipulate them to their ultimate spiritual and physical harm; and to refute claims that the teachings of Jesus as presented in the bible, support in any way the belief that "white witchcraft" is approved by God.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




RELATED POSTS

What is spiritism?
viewtopic.php?p=955577#p955577

Can Satan and the demons trick humans into believing they are good angels or even God or Jesus?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p836072

Did Samuel talk to a witch while he was dead?
viewtopic.php?p=1097600#p1097600

Do any good spirits (angels) sometimes communicate with humans?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 91#p932691

Should all supernatural phenomena be attributed to God (or good spirits)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 45#p955245

Are exorcism legitimate?
viewtopic.php?p=765712#p765712

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

WITCHCRAFT, SPIRITISM and ... NDE*

*Near Death Experiences

[Yahu]

And besides, all of this comes down to your belief in "Witches". Do you actually believe that witches can wield spiritual magical powers?

Yes, I do believe witches can wield spiritual powers. I have seen the results and even been the target of those powers. I have broken their spells and curses with the name of Yeshua and sent them back on the senders 7x and many of them died.

Now the coven I had dealings with was broken into two factions. One group were more like wicans in that they only did 'good' by their definition and refused to deal in curses and any 'evil' form of witchcraft.

The black faction of the coven all were convicted while the 'white' faction was forced to help prosecute them and were only dishonorably discharged if they did testify. The 'white' faction was aware of the criminal activities of the 'black' faction but failed to report their activities. The 'white' faction was also prosecuted for 'conspiracy to commit treason' and prostitution but were just cast out of the military with dishonorable discharge if they testified against the 'black' faction.

So those into so-called 'good witchraft' were still prosecuted but to a much lesser degree. Many of them repented and got saved once the evil of their 'good witchcraft' was exposed. All but their 'white' faction high priestess renounced witchcraft and got saved, then testified against the others.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 132 by Yahu]

Your story makes as much sense as someone claiming that members of the KKK are "valid" Christians.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 132 by Yahu]

By the way, if we accept your testimony as truth, then we have evidence by your testimony that Witchcraft is real. And the power of Witchcraft exists.

My argument still holds true. Any "Good" Witches have necessarily been vindicated by Jesus as having their source of power come from God. Since that was his excuse.

Therefore all you have done is verify that Witchcraft is REAL, and that at least some "evil witches" exist.

I never claimed that evil witches don't exist.

All I have claimed is that "Good Witches" have been vindicated by Jesus. And those would necessarily include all Witches that actually adhere to the Wiccan Rede.

Therefore all "True Wiccans" (i.e. witches that are true to the Wiccan Rede) have necessarily been vindicated by Jesus.

Your stories of "Evil Witches" are totally irrelevant to that point.

An evil Witch is no more a valid Wiccan than a member of the KKK is a valid Christian.

So your entire testimony is moot as far as Jesus is concerned. Jesus only vindicated the "Good Witches".

Not the evil ones.

In fact, if a witch is doing evil then supposedly they must necessarily be obtaining their power from an evil source, otherwise God would be the House Divided Against Itself.

In fact, Jesus got ticked off at a fig tree and cursed it with an evil spell. That seems contrary to his claim of always doing good works.

Maybe Jesus was an evil demon all along, and his excuse was never valid in the first place? That's something we could consider?

However, if we want to allow that Jesus is the TRUTH, then we must recognize that all Good Wiccans have been vindicated by Jesus.

Tales of Evil Witches are meaningless.

[JehovahsWitness]

All I have claimed is that "Good Witches" have been vindicated by Jesus. And those would necessarily include all Witches that actually adhere to the Wiccan Rede.

You may have "claimed" that but there is no biblical evidence ] to support for that. Indeed there is nothing in the gospels that suggest Jesus believed witchcraft could be divided into "good" and "bad" or that there were any "good witches".


JW

[Divine Insight]

All I have claimed is that "Good Witches" have been vindicated by Jesus. And those would necessarily include all Witches that actually adhere to the Wiccan Rede.

You may have "claimed" that but there is no biblical evidence ] to support for that. Indeed there is nothing in the gospels that suggest Jesus believed witchcraft could be divided into "good" and "bad" or that there were any "good witches".


JW

That's totally irrelevant. For one thing when discussing the Bible we can't even be sure if there even was a "Jesus" or that he ever said any of these things in any case. The authors who claim to speak on Jesus' behalf could have made up anything that they claim that "Jesus" might have supposedly said.

The point is that the story claims that Jesus offered up this defense to charges being brought up against him.

My point is that this particular defense is deemed to be acceptable for Jesus, then it must necessarily be a valid defense for anyone who is being accused of doing magical or spiritual works.

It matters not what Jesus (or the authors who claim to speak for Jesus) were thinking. The defense is either a valid defense or it's not.

If it's a valid defense then it must necessarily apply to anyone who is said to have done "Good Works" in the name of spiritual magic.

You can't accuse a witch who is doing "good works" of obtaining their power from an evil source because if your accusation holds up, then Jesus defense fails.

In short, if Jesus defensive argument holds true for him, then it must necessarily hold true for everyone. Because after all, if this defensive argument doesn't hold true in every single case, then why should it hold true for Jesus?

So whether this defense to these charges actually came from Jesus or was made up by authors inventing things to have their Jesus character say, doesn't matter.

If this argument is valid for Jesus, then it must be valid for everyone.

So there's no getting around it. These fables of Jesus have Jesus vindicating all witches who do only "Good Works". And that would necessarily include all valid Wiccans. Because anyone claiming to be a Wiccan who is doing "Evil Works" is already in violation of the Wicca Rede and thus their claim to be a "Wiccan" is invalid.

Therefore, if we accept Jesus' defense as the TRUTH (and Jesus could supposedly only speak the truth), then all witches who only practice good works have been vindicated by Jesus.

Like it or not.

Jesus has vindicated all good witches by his very own defensive arguments.

Whether intentionally or not.

[Yahu]

[Replying to post 132 by Yahu]

By the way, if we accept your testimony as truth, then we have evidence by your testimony that Witchcraft is real. And the power of Witchcraft exists.

My argument still holds true. Any "Good" Witches have necessarily been vindicated by Jesus as having their source of power come from God. Since that was his excuse.

Therefore all you have done is verify that Witchcraft is REAL, and that at least some "evil witches" exist.

I never claimed that evil witches don't exist.

All I have claimed is that "Good Witches" have been vindicated by Jesus. And those would necessarily include all Witches that actually adhere to the Wiccan Rede.

Witchcraft is conducted via calling on other spiritual forces. It is rooted in worship of the pagan gods/goddesses. The very fact that it involves calling on those spiritual forces to conduct witchcraft by definition makes it evil and carries a death penalty by the laws of Yah.

It is a violation of 'Thou shalt not have any other god before Me'.

The one Wiccan coven I encountered in college were followers of Gaia, ie 'Mother Earth' which was Asherah worship in the Canaanite pantheon. Some Wiccan spells call upon spirits of the four cardnal directions, ie the 'four winds' which is calling upon the four main principalities of the demonic realms.

The 'white' witches I encountered in the military were followers of Diana. They followed the same ideals as the Wiccans. They primarily dealt in things like love spells, protection spells and didn't do what they considered evil. Well we all know what the followers of Diana tried to do to Paul in Ephesus. Even love spells are great evil. They meddle with people's emotions and I have seen great evil result from them.

There is no such thing as 'good' witchcraft. Even protection spells prevent people from reaping what they sow. It allows them to get away with doing evil without facing the consequences of that evil.

Scripture says 'Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft'. Few people understand that statement. Rebellion is the rejection of valid authority while witchcraft is usurping invalid authority. Taking invalid authority over spiritual forces to do your will as opposed to doing Yah's will is witchcraft. It has nothing to do with the intent of the practitioner but whose will is being imposed on another and what authority they have to impose that will.

[Divine Insight]

It is a violation of 'Thou shalt not have any other god before Me'.

Wiccans call upon the power of the creator of the universe, if your god feels that this leaves him out in the cold that's his problem.

[JehovahsWitness]

For one thing when discussing the Bible we can't even be sure if there even was a "Jesus"

Well if that is the case, why are you claiming to know what he validated?

All I have claimed is that "Good Witches" have been vindicated by Jesus.

In any case, I simply refered to the Gospel text and the words recorded therein attrituted to Jesus, in the same way that you did in your attempt to support your claim. If you have any valid points in counterargument to the posts I have made (see above) from the text Under discussion (ie the bible) feel free to present them, but to question the credulity of the very text you are using to support your point is both irrelevant and counterproductive.

[Divine Insight]

For one thing when discussing the Bible we can't even be sure if there even was a "Jesus"

Well if that is the case, why are you claiming to know what he validated?

I'm not.

All I have ever claimed is that if the excuse Jesus used is valid for him then it must necessarily be valid for everyone who does good works.

Jesus could be a totally fictitious character who never existed. That wouldn't change my argument one iota.