Gun Control

[Sender]

This topic of discussion should break down barriers we may otherwise have. I hope I am in the right forum.

What are your thoughts?

[cnorman18]

Personally I hate guns, they are dishonourable!

Real warriors use proper, dignified weapons like a sword, a mace, a staff, a bow, or a knife.

Guns are impersonal, and far too damaging to be controlled properly, at least the bow takes skill, and training!

Using a gun in combat is like using explosives in fishing: Stupid, wasteful, destructive, and UNSPORTSMANLIKE!

Sorry, dude. Guys who break into my house at 3 AM aren't entitled to sportsmanship. They are entitled to bullets.

This isn't a movie or a game. It's real life.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't use guns, only that guns are not honourable.

Cushy concepts like honour, and sportsmanship need not apply to defending you, and yours.

But guns have ruined warcraft... bullets, missiles, and explosives are tossed around like so much candy! Endangering innocents, and distancing people from that moment of guilt that ending the life of another human being, one who could be a father, a brother, or friend... Guns, and explosives disconnect us from the horror they bring, and sometimes that's not a good thing.

Proper wars should be fought man to man, not tank to plane!

Guns are all well and good for civilians to use in defence of the things they care about, if they feel they need a shotgun, or pistol to keep their family, and property safe then more power to them!

One can only fight with honor if your opponent recognizes the concept too. How do you feel about roadside IEDs?

[Tuddrussell]

That is exactly what I'm talking about, guns, and explosives have ruined warcraft.

I have never said one should not use guns, only that they are not honourable...

Yes, I hate guns... but sometimes, when it really matters, you have to dance with the devil.

I don't use guns for hunting, or for sport, or anything other than defending my family, because no matter how important my honour is to me, they will always be more important.

If you threaten me I will kick your ass, unless you have a gun... which changes the rules... the moment you pull a gun on me, is the moment you gave up the right to be fought as a warrior.

The moment I perceive you as a threat to the people I care about is the moment I stop caring about whether I kill you or not.

[cnorman18]

That is exactly what I'm talking about, guns, and explosives have ruined warcraft.

I have never said one should not use guns, only that they are not honourable...

Yes, I hate guns... but sometimes, when it really matters, you have to dance with the devil.

I don't use guns for hunting, or for sport, or anything other than defending my family, because no matter how important my honour is to me, they will always be more important.

If you threaten me I will kick your ass, unless you have a gun... which changes the rules... the moment you pull a gun on me, is the moment you gave up the right to be fought as a warrior.

The moment I perceive you as a threat to the people I care about is the moment I stop caring about whether I kill you or not.

I'm with you on all that, except I don't think ANYONE has the right to be "fought as a warrior." If I go out looking for a fight, that's one thing - but in today's world, that's insane. Anyone who attacks me or mine isn't honorable from the get-go, as far as I'm concerned. No rules. I don't know if your plan is to rob me, beat me up, or kill me, so my course is clear; I shall assume a worst-case scenario and kill you first. That's in the Talmud, by the way, as a Jewish moral teaching; if you know that a man is on his way to kill you, the proper and moral thing to do is meet him on the way - and kill him first. "Turn the other cheek" is NOT a Jewish teaching. If it were, there would be no Jews in the world today.

For the record; in the defensive art of the firearm, there is no such thing as "shooting to wound." Any bullet you fire, regardless of your intent, may well take a person's life; and if the situation isn't one that makes taking a life absolutely necessary, you don't fire at all. If you fire, you shoot to kill. That may or may not be "honorable," but it's realistic and effective. Nothing else is.

Another factor; small-statured, aged, or infirm people of either sex don't have the luxury of "fighting honorably," either. Anyone who preys on the elderly or infirm has also forfeited the right to "honorable combat."

Rules are for sports and games. Real fighting, as in fighting for your life, has none.

[bernee51]

That is exactly what I'm talking about, guns, and explosives have ruined warcraft.

I have never said one should not use guns, only that they are not honourable...

Yes, I hate guns... but sometimes, when it really matters, you have to dance with the devil.

I don't use guns for hunting, or for sport, or anything other than defending my family, because no matter how important my honour is to me, they will always be more important.

If you threaten me I will kick your ass, unless you have a gun... which changes the rules... the moment you pull a gun on me, is the moment you gave up the right to be fought as a warrior.

The moment I perceive you as a threat to the people I care about is the moment I stop caring about whether I kill you or not.

I'm with you on all that, except I don't think ANYONE has the right to be "fought as a warrior." If I go out looking for a fight, that's one thing - but in today's world, that's insane. Anyone who attacks me or mine isn't honorable from the get-go, as far as I'm concerned. No rules. I don't know if your plan is to rob me, beat me up, or kill me, so my course is clear; I shall assume a worst-case scenario and kill you first. That's in the Talmud, by the way, as a Jewish moral teaching; if you know that a man is on his way to kill you, the proper and moral thing to do is meet him on the way - and kill him first. "Turn the other cheek" is NOT a Jewish teaching. If it were, there would be no Jews in the world today.

For the record; in the defensive art of the firearm, there is no such thing as "shooting to wound." Any bullet you fire, regardless of your intent, may well take a person's life; and if the situation isn't one that makes taking a life absolutely necessary, you don't fire at all. If you fire, you shoot to kill. That may or may not be "honorable," but it's realistic and effective. Nothing else is.

Another factor; small-statured, aged, or infirm people of either sex don't have the luxury of "fighting honorably," either. Anyone who preys on the elderly or infirm has also forfeited the right to "honorable combat."

Rules are for sports and games. Real fighting, as in fighting for your life, has none.

I get your meaning Charles.

I spent 15+ years training in combat martial arts. The instructions were 'if you need to use this you are in dire need' and it was no holds barred and lives would be on the line. Fortunately not once did I 'need' to use it despite being threatened on several occasions.

[Tuddrussell]

As far as I am concerned it is never honourable to fight someone weaker than you, unless it is sparring, or some other exception.

Part of being a warrior, or at least being a "true warrior" in my book, is excepting that you very well might not be walking out of any fight you get in.

Dieing in combat is one of the most honourable ways of dieing, dieing to save a life, or to bring one into this word are also good deaths.

I've used guns, and I've used them a lot.. but only to train in their use in case I ever had to use one.

I hold myself to a much higher standard than I hold others... As a matter of fact I go into every fight I get in, fully expecting my opponent to fight dirty, and to act dishonourably, only a fool goes into a fight expecting the other combatant to fight the way they do, or to follow the same rules.

But if someone challenged me to a duel, and layed out ground rules, then I would follow them... but only if my opponent did as well.

If they break the rules, then I take that as a sign that the rules are irrelevant... at least until the fight is over.