Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
Some time ago, a question occurred to me: If Anti-abortion (pro-life) supporters argued under the assumption that unborn children had certain rights, (in this case, the right to life) does it constitute hypocrisy if the same person has his or her child circumcised shortly after birth, when the child is incapable of consenting to said operation?
So the questions for debate are as follows:
Does circumcision violate the rights of an infant?
Should cosmetic surgery on infants (excluding reconstructive cosmetic surgery) be considered unethical?
Does it constitute hypocrisy to be both pro-life and have his or her child circumcised?
Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
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Post #51
Just a thought. Since time immemorial, the Jews and I don't know who have been circumcising babies. I have not heard of or come across anyone dying as a result.
But I do know without fear of challenge that when an abortion takes place, a baby always dies. In fact, millions of them die every year.
Therefore we are comparing apples with oranges.
But I do know without fear of challenge that when an abortion takes place, a baby always dies. In fact, millions of them die every year.
Therefore we are comparing apples with oranges.
Re: Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
Post #52As you put it here, YES, it is hypocritical. The real difference is that, things that can be justified by religion is always OK - never hypocritical. Never ever ever.Waiways wrote: Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
Some time ago, a question occurred to me: If Anti-abortion (pro-life) supporters argued under the assumption that unborn children had certain rights, (in this case, the right to life) does it constitute hypocrisy if the same person has his or her child circumcised shortly after birth, when the child is incapable of consenting to said operation?
So the questions for debate are as follows:
Does circumcision violate the rights of an infant?
Should cosmetic surgery on infants (excluding reconstructive cosmetic surgery) be considered unethical?
Does it constitute hypocrisy to be both pro-life and have his or her child circumcised?
Re: Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
Post #53[Replying to post 52 by connermt]
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Psalm 16:11 You have shown me the path to life, and you make me glad by being near to me. Sitting at your right side, I will always be joyful.
And then again, on another forum someone who was an atheist and a homosexual said that they NEVER do anything wrong.As you put it here, YES, it is hypocritical. The real difference is that, things that can be justified by religion is always OK - never hypocritical. Never ever ever.
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Psalm 16:11 You have shown me the path to life, and you make me glad by being near to me. Sitting at your right side, I will always be joyful.
Re: Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
Post #54A good news story to show how life is precious.
It involves a disabled baby which was chosen for life – because of a 3D scan showing the baby’s smile. A news report begins this way: “A mother was unable to abort her severely disabled son despite doctors’ warnings after seeing her baby’s smile in a 3D scan picture.
“Katyia Rowe was told her baby’s brain had not formed properly and that he would never walk or talk and would need 24-hour care. But after seeing real-time moving scans of him smiling, blowing bubbles, kicking and waving his arms she made the heartbreaking decision to go through with the birth. Tragically Lucian, as she named him, died nine hours after he was born. Despite the ordeal, Ms Rowe said she had no regrets going through with the birth as she was able to cuddle her baby son.
“Katyia, 26, a training administrator, said: ‘We were devastated to be told our son’s brain abnormalities were so severe they were life limiting we should consider a termination. Further scans were arranged to assess the extent of his disabilities but when I saw him smiling and playing inside me I knew I couldn’t end his life.
“‘If he could smile and play and feel then despite his disabilities he deserved to enjoy whatever life he had left, no matter how short. Just because his life would be shorter or different, didn’t mean he didn’t deserve to experience it. As long as he was pain free I vowed to let him enjoy his life both while inside me and outside, no matter how long that be’.�
It involves a disabled baby which was chosen for life – because of a 3D scan showing the baby’s smile. A news report begins this way: “A mother was unable to abort her severely disabled son despite doctors’ warnings after seeing her baby’s smile in a 3D scan picture.
“Katyia Rowe was told her baby’s brain had not formed properly and that he would never walk or talk and would need 24-hour care. But after seeing real-time moving scans of him smiling, blowing bubbles, kicking and waving his arms she made the heartbreaking decision to go through with the birth. Tragically Lucian, as she named him, died nine hours after he was born. Despite the ordeal, Ms Rowe said she had no regrets going through with the birth as she was able to cuddle her baby son.
“Katyia, 26, a training administrator, said: ‘We were devastated to be told our son’s brain abnormalities were so severe they were life limiting we should consider a termination. Further scans were arranged to assess the extent of his disabilities but when I saw him smiling and playing inside me I knew I couldn’t end his life.
“‘If he could smile and play and feel then despite his disabilities he deserved to enjoy whatever life he had left, no matter how short. Just because his life would be shorter or different, didn’t mean he didn’t deserve to experience it. As long as he was pain free I vowed to let him enjoy his life both while inside me and outside, no matter how long that be’.�
Post #55
Here is another good news story
A less threatening condition – but one which is also used quite often to justify abortion – shows that loving parents and determined children can thrive if given a chance. The story is this: “My son was born with a cleft lip and palette. Matthew, who is 14 now, is very successful as a public speaker, a dog handler, and active in 4-H. He has won several championships with his Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Saffron, at local fairs in summer.
“He was also in one of the top positions for judging in our district and was able to go to a Provincial Judging Event earlier this month. All of this comes only his first year as a senior member, which means he beat many older members. Matthew is a totally normal boy, just like anyone else. Babies born with this condition are mentally normal. It has nothing to do with mental development.
“Our son is very smart and articulate. He has a barely detectable scar, which just looks like he hurt himself in the playground. That’s what other kids think – that is, the ones who even notice. When we heard that many babies with this condition are being aborted, we were horrified. We felt that we had to share Matthew’s story to try and help save these poor babies.�
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Psalm 18:2 You are my mighty rock, my fortress, my protector, the rock where I am safe, my shield, my powerful weapon, and my place of shelter.
A less threatening condition – but one which is also used quite often to justify abortion – shows that loving parents and determined children can thrive if given a chance. The story is this: “My son was born with a cleft lip and palette. Matthew, who is 14 now, is very successful as a public speaker, a dog handler, and active in 4-H. He has won several championships with his Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Saffron, at local fairs in summer.
“He was also in one of the top positions for judging in our district and was able to go to a Provincial Judging Event earlier this month. All of this comes only his first year as a senior member, which means he beat many older members. Matthew is a totally normal boy, just like anyone else. Babies born with this condition are mentally normal. It has nothing to do with mental development.
“Our son is very smart and articulate. He has a barely detectable scar, which just looks like he hurt himself in the playground. That’s what other kids think – that is, the ones who even notice. When we heard that many babies with this condition are being aborted, we were horrified. We felt that we had to share Matthew’s story to try and help save these poor babies.�
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Psalm 18:2 You are my mighty rock, my fortress, my protector, the rock where I am safe, my shield, my powerful weapon, and my place of shelter.
Post #56
Still more good news
“It was March 17th, the day after my birthday. I was 36 weeks pregnant with my first child, who wasn’t due until tax day. I had left work that Friday ready to celebrate my birthday at home and enjoy the time that I had left with just my husband and me. Instead, I got a birthday surprise- my beautiful son was born. That was the best gift I could have received.
“What breaks my heart is that to many people, my son could have been aborted because he wasn’t considered fully human yet. Even though he was born a month early, he was completely healthy. He had two hands, two feet, a beating heart and everything else that a healthy human has. The thing is, he had all of those things long before 36 weeks, which was evident when viewing the ultrasounds during my pregnancy. We were able to capture some amazing photos and videos of my son in utero. My favourite is the video of when we caught him yawning.�
The story concludes, “Abortion stops a beating heart. You may have heard this before. That’s because it’s true. By the time a woman finds out she is pregnant, her child already has a beating heart. And developing organs like the spinal cord, liver and lungs. How we can justify the destruction of the child in the womb is unfathomable.
“It’s been four months since my son was born, and he’s as healthy and precious as ever. He smiles all the time, he has started vocalizing and just days ago, he rolled over all by himself for the first time. Looking into his big blue eyes reminds me of when I saw those eyes on the ultrasound screen. I didn’t know at the time who that little person was inside of me, but now that I know, I can say with certainty that he is just as human now as he was then.�
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Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are a heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
“It was March 17th, the day after my birthday. I was 36 weeks pregnant with my first child, who wasn’t due until tax day. I had left work that Friday ready to celebrate my birthday at home and enjoy the time that I had left with just my husband and me. Instead, I got a birthday surprise- my beautiful son was born. That was the best gift I could have received.
“What breaks my heart is that to many people, my son could have been aborted because he wasn’t considered fully human yet. Even though he was born a month early, he was completely healthy. He had two hands, two feet, a beating heart and everything else that a healthy human has. The thing is, he had all of those things long before 36 weeks, which was evident when viewing the ultrasounds during my pregnancy. We were able to capture some amazing photos and videos of my son in utero. My favourite is the video of when we caught him yawning.�
The story concludes, “Abortion stops a beating heart. You may have heard this before. That’s because it’s true. By the time a woman finds out she is pregnant, her child already has a beating heart. And developing organs like the spinal cord, liver and lungs. How we can justify the destruction of the child in the womb is unfathomable.
“It’s been four months since my son was born, and he’s as healthy and precious as ever. He smiles all the time, he has started vocalizing and just days ago, he rolled over all by himself for the first time. Looking into his big blue eyes reminds me of when I saw those eyes on the ultrasound screen. I didn’t know at the time who that little person was inside of me, but now that I know, I can say with certainty that he is just as human now as he was then.�
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Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are a heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
Re: Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
Post #57Are you claiming that this person was lying?wotsupdoc wrote: [Replying to post 52 by connermt]
And then again, on another forum someone who was an atheist and a homosexual said that they NEVER do anything wrong.As you put it here, YES, it is hypocritical. The real difference is that, things that can be justified by religion is always OK - never hypocritical. Never ever ever.
Post #58
And if your god exists and created everything then millions die everyday because of the way he created humans. No contest really, is there?wotsupdoc wrote: Just a thought. Since time immemorial, the Jews and I don't know who have been circumcising babies. I have not heard of or come across anyone dying as a result.
But I do know without fear of challenge that when an abortion takes place, a baby always dies. In fact, millions of them die every year.
Therefore we are comparing apples with oranges.
Re: Abortion, Circumcision, and Hypocrisy
Post #59Has nothing to do with the discussion. But thanks anywaywotsupdoc wrote: [Replying to post 52 by connermt]
And then again, on another forum someone who was an atheist and a homosexual said that they NEVER do anything wrong.As you put it here, YES, it is hypocritical. The real difference is that, things that can be justified by religion is always OK - never hypocritical. Never ever ever.
================================================================================================================
Psalm 16:11 You have shown me the path to life, and you make me glad by being near to me. Sitting at your right side, I will always be joyful.
Post #60
[Replying to post 58 by 10CC]
Nothing to do with this discussion but thanks anyway.And if your god exists and created everything then millions die everyday because of the way he created humans. No contest really, is there?
