The weight of supposed Sins (Absurd)

[slyracoon]

Something has been on my mind the past couple of days and has driven me crazy for the most part. Sinning claims to have the same immoral weight with any sin, whether its murder or theft, and one can be forgiven (hypothetically) by "God" if they truly show remorse for their actions. But lets take 911, a terrorist attack that was claimed to be justified by Al Qaeda as the will of "God" (or Allah, which is arabic for god). They practically committed Genocide, but if they were truly remorseful of their actions then they would be forgiven? And also, committing Genocide carries the same weight as stealing a pack of gum? (In the eyes of Christianity)

Is it me or is this completely absurd?
A lot of people would not regard theft as a terrible thing, but murder is something in this society that people can be condemned to life in prison for. Its so ridiculous that someone can get away with such atrocities (like genocide) and have it come off with the same moral weight as small things such as general shoplifting (like stealing a pack of gum)

Thanks for listening

[Wootah]

...

There are sins that are worse than others. I don't know where you get the dogma that all sins are equal. That's not sound doctrine.

...

Consider this,
All sinners carry the full weight of their sin but the elect will be redeemed from that weight while the non-elect will be crushed under it.

The doctrine of the ultimate disvalue of sin (every sin has full ultimate disvalue in GOD's eyes) means all sins are equal in their weight against GOD's purity but 1. any sin by an elect person (under GOD's promise of election and salvation) puts Christ on the cross while 2. any sin by a non-elect tare puts them in hell.

The difference is not to be found in what the sin is but in who is doing the sinning. A non-elect who steals is going to have that sin judged and punished while in hell. An elect who kills millions (if this is possible which I tend to think not, since it is suggested that GOD mitigates the sins the elect wish to do to save them the suffering of their repentance and all their suffering is perfectly proportioned to bring them to repentance) will be redeemed and saved.

This just means that it is our eternal relationship with GOD that decides whether we are punished in hell or forgiven our sins, NOT the supposed evilness of any particular sin.

Peace, Ted

Hi Ted - how does one know one is in the elect?

[ttruscott]

...

Hi Ted - how does one know one is in the elect?

GOD proves it to him by the gift of death from guilt and rebirth in repentance...

Peace, Ted

[OnceConvinced]

It’s definitely ludicrous to see all sins as equal. Even Christians see some sins as worse than others, but yes the bible does paint all sins as being equal. All result in you going to hell if you don’t repent. Then there are scriptures that say to hate is the same as murder and to think a lustful thought is the same as actually performing a sex act, which even Christians know is just plain ridiculous. We all have animal urges, we were born with them… you could say we were CREATED with them, so to liken them to actual acts is just ludicrous.

The thing is, it all becomes totally irrelevant though when you consider that sin really has no impact on whether you go to Heaven or Hell. When it comes down to it, it ULTIMATELY depends on whether you believe or not. If you don’t stroke God’s ego you go to hell. If you do, then it doesn’t matter what you’ve done, you still get salvation.

Now before you Christians object think about this. If I am truly repentant and sorry for what I’ve done will I automatically gain salvation? No, first I have to ask your God for forgiveness. So it doesn’t matter how repentant I am, I FIRST have to believe in your God. What if I repent to Allah? Will I be forgiven? Will I go to Heaven? Of course not, because I would be asking for forgiveness from a false God. So what’s most important? You guessed it. Belief in the right God. When it comes down to it, it doesn’t matter how repentant I am, if I don’t believe in your God then I’m going to hell.

[10CC]

...

Hi Ted - how does one know one is in the elect?

GOD proves it to him by the gift of death from guilt and rebirth in repentance...

Peace, Ted

So you have no idea!
Cos you might be a reprobate that has learnt the power of god on earth and honestly love god, but stiff bikkies sunshine you made the wrong decision when you had your chance.
Who was it made you religious on earth anyway?

[bluethread]

One thing that is not being taken into account here is that there are two levels of law. In our legal system we have both criminal and civil law. Criminal law has to do with the violation of a code. Many of those codes provide remedies for the violation of the code, ie. fine and imprisonment. Civil law has to do with equity and restitution. So, it is with Adonai's law. When one violates Adonai's law one is criminally guilty and must bear the penalty, ie sacrifice or death. In this sense guilty is guilty. There are varying degrees of sacrifice or death, in this life, based on the social effect of the offense, but the guilt remains. Many say of the offender who pays the fine or is released from prison has "paid his debt to society". However, that does not undo what has occurred. The person is still a convicted criminal. It does not matter the offense. Yeshua does not contradict this, but merely states that the remedies presented in HaTorah arw indicative of a

Civil law has to do with equity and restitution. Restitution is not the same for every offense. The purpose of this law is not to place guilt, but identify responsibility and seek an equitable solution. Some of HaTorah deals with this. The requirements in these commands are not the same in every case, but are based on equity and restitution. Yeshua does not contradict this either, but points out to the victim is not required to demand restitution and should not carry a grudge.

[Sonofason]

Something has been on my mind the past couple of days and has driven me crazy for the most part. Sinning claims to have the same immoral weight with any sin, whether its murder or theft, and one can be forgiven (hypothetically) by "God" if they truly show remorse for their actions. But lets take 911, a terrorist attack that was claimed to be justified by Al Qaeda as the will of "God" (or Allah, which is arabic for god). They practically committed Genocide, but if they were truly remorseful of their actions then they would be forgiven? And also, committing Genocide carries the same weight as stealing a pack of gum? (In the eyes of Christianity)

Is it me or is this completely absurd?
A lot of people would not regard theft as a terrible thing, but murder is something in this society that people can be condemned to life in prison for. Its so ridiculous that someone can get away with such atrocities (like genocide) and have it come off with the same moral weight as small things such as general shoplifting (like stealing a pack of gum)

Thanks for listening

Well, I may be wrong about this, but if I had to choose one, I chose genocide, as stealing a pencil is of little significance and of little consequence. If I can be forgiven for either, I choose to commit the offense that would do me and my own a greater service. As I said, stealing a pencil is short lived and a rather worthless offense to be sent to hell for. If I must be sent to hell, then I hope I do something more worthy of it. If I should be forgiven, then I will not only spend my eternity in heaven once dead, but those I leave behind will be better off.

[ttruscott]

...

Hi Ted - how does one know one is in the elect?

GOD proves it to him by the gift of death from guilt and rebirth in repentance...

Peace, Ted

So you have no idea!
Cos you might be a reprobate that has learnt the power of god on earth and honestly love god, but stiff bikkies sunshine you made the wrong decision when you had your chance.
Who was it made you religious on earth anyway?

Gee - I'm asked, I answer and my EXPERIENCE is 100% discounted out of hand just like the testimony of a child against her abuser...

Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

The term "gaslighting" comes from the play Gas Light and its film adaptations. The term is now also used in clinical and research literature.

What you have personally experienced and know D.O.E.S. N.O.T. C.O.U.N.T! This especially when it adds dimensions to, calls into question or -- horrors of horrors -- contradicts their contentions.

Peace, Ted

[help3434]

[Replying to post 27 by ttruscott]

What tangible experience are you talking about?

[cubey]

This just means that it is our eternal relationship with GOD that decides whether we are punished in hell or forgiven our sins, NOT the supposed evilness of any particular sin.

This shows how morally bankrupt your beliefs are.
You and you alone are responsible for the wrong that you do.
And what would be morally correct is for you and you alone to be held responsible for the wrong that you do.
If you sinned against me I would not let you use a scapegoat because that is morally corruptible.
It's your sin, you and you alone are responsible for it, so you pay the piper.
This scapegoat nonsense is so evil, because it lets those who do wrong get away with it, without any responsibility or punishment for the evil that they do.

[Jack Stoddart]

Hi Ted - how does one know one is in the elect?

GOD proves it to him by the gift of death from guilt and rebirth in repentance

How does one know that has happened?

Does anyone know what connection there is between "sin" and the ancient mesopotamian god Sin?