Threat or Warning? Moral or Immoral?

[A Troubled Man]

I'm not threatening you, I'm giving you some good advice. Take it or leave it.

...God created both heaven and hell. Those who put their faith in Him will go to heaven, those who reject Him will go to hell. Yes, I believe God is moral in everything He does, so that would include in creating both hell and heaven.

Is the "advice" we get from believers threats or warnings regarding Heaven and Hell?

Is it moral or immoral for believers to reiterate their "advice" to others?

Would you conclude the "advice" is reason to reject any religion that offers it?

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 62 by 10CC]
Well that is your faith statement. My faith statement is that Jesus did not sin in thought. It explains our beliefs about Jesus.

It's not my faith statement I take the statement directly from his authorised biography.

which part can you quote from the bible that says jesus sinned in thought?

Well, when he was out in the desert, and heard Satan's voice, that is 'sinning in thought'.. being tempted by power.

I believe you are mistaken. Here's the problem. Words often have more than one meaning. When a word is used, it is rarely the authors intent to employ all possible meanings of a word, but only the meaning of the word that actually applies to the authors intent. It is clear from the context of the passages about Jesus being tempted by the devil that the following meaning was intended.
tempt -
1: to try to persuade someone to do something by making it seem attractive.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

A person is not committing a sin if someone else is trying to persuade them to do something by making it seem attractive. Hearing Satan is not a sin.

If someone has tried, in the past, to tempt someone, then they have tempted someone. I know there are meanings of the word "to tempt" that do imply that what you are saying is true. But you are wrong in thinking that this was the intent of the author. I will provide a definition now for the word tempt that does not apply to the context of the passages you have referred to.

2: to make someone want to have or do something, even though they know they really should not.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

You see, Jesus did not want to do anything that Satan tried to tempt Him to do. Definition 2 does not apply. Definition 1 does apply here.

I personally don't see how your explanation fits the story, in fact, it seems to make the entire story totally worthless as a story.

Sorry, your explanation just doesn't make any sense what so ever.

The truth isn't always apparent. It's hard to see when your eyes are closed.

So are you saying that jesus never really thought about these temptations and therefore did not commit the sin?

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

[Goat]

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

Then, you disagree with Jesus, who supposedly said

- But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Ok. I am so glad you understand sin so much better than Jesus.

[Sonofason]

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

Then, you disagree with Jesus, who supposedly said

- But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Ok. I am so glad you understand sin so much better than Jesus.

I think you gravely misunderstand what Jesus was saying.

Lust is " Intense or unrestrained sexual craving."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lust

There is no sin in looking at a woman. There is no sin in looking at a naked woman. The sin is lust. If you look at a woman in order to satisfy a sexual craving, then you are committing sin.

I suggest grabbing a dictionary before making further comments. Perhaps a course in reading comprehension could help. You ought not rely on me to be your vocabulary instructor.

By the way, I do not understand sin better than Jesus. I understand sin better than you.

[Goat]

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

Then, you disagree with Jesus, who supposedly said

- But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Ok. I am so glad you understand sin so much better than Jesus.

I think you gravely misunderstand what Jesus was saying.

Lust is " Intense or unrestrained sexual craving."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lust

There is no sin in looking at a woman. There is no sin in looking at a naked woman. The sin is lust. If you look at a woman in order to satisfy a sexual craving, then you are committing sin.

I suggest grabbing a dictionary before making further comments. Perhaps a course in reading comprehension could help. You ought not rely on me to be your vocabulary instructor.

By the way, I do not understand sin better than Jesus. I understand sin better than you.

Oh, I see, you use the logical fallacy of equivocation, then accuse me of not understanding. It's so clear.

[Sonofason]

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

Then, you disagree with Jesus, who supposedly said

- But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


Ok. I am so glad you understand sin so much better than Jesus.

I think you gravely misunderstand what Jesus was saying.

Lust is " Intense or unrestrained sexual craving."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lust

There is no sin in looking at a woman. There is no sin in looking at a naked woman. The sin is lust. If you look at a woman in order to satisfy a sexual craving, then you are committing sin.

I suggest grabbing a dictionary before making further comments. Perhaps a course in reading comprehension could help. You ought not rely on me to be your vocabulary instructor.

By the way, I do not understand sin better than Jesus. I understand sin better than you.

Oh, I see, you use the logical fallacy of equivocation, then accuse me of not understanding. It's so clear.

Rather than making yet another unsupported false claim, why not show how I have used a logical fallacy of equivocation. Please explain your understanding of the sin of lust, and please show how, or explain why you think that looking at a woman is sin, because from what you have said, it is apparent to me that you don't understand. There is no reason for anyone to believe your unsupported claim, especially when it is false.

[10CC]

[Replying to post 62 by 10CC]
Well that is your faith statement. My faith statement is that Jesus did not sin in thought. It explains our beliefs about Jesus.

It's not my faith statement I take the statement directly from his authorised biography.

which part can you quote from the bible that says jesus sinned in thought?

Well, when he was out in the desert, and heard Satan's voice, that is 'sinning in thought'.. being tempted by power.

I believe you are mistaken. Here's the problem. Words often have more than one meaning. When a word is used, it is rarely the authors intent to employ all possible meanings of a word, but only the meaning of the word that actually applies to the authors intent. It is clear from the context of the passages about Jesus being tempted by the devil that the following meaning was intended.
tempt -
1: to try to persuade someone to do something by making it seem attractive.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

A person is not committing a sin if someone else is trying to persuade them to do something by making it seem attractive. Hearing Satan is not a sin.

If someone has tried, in the past, to tempt someone, then they have tempted someone. I know there are meanings of the word "to tempt" that do imply that what you are saying is true. But you are wrong in thinking that this was the intent of the author. I will provide a definition now for the word tempt that does not apply to the context of the passages you have referred to.

2: to make someone want to have or do something, even though they know they really should not.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

You see, Jesus did not want to do anything that Satan tried to tempt Him to do. Definition 2 does not apply. Definition 1 does apply here.

I personally don't see how your explanation fits the story, in fact, it seems to make the entire story totally worthless as a story.

Sorry, your explanation just doesn't make any sense what so ever.

The truth isn't always apparent. It's hard to see when your eyes are closed.

So are you saying that jesus never really thought about these temptations and therefore did not commit the sin?

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

What about retaining those evil thoughts?

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 62 by 10CC]
Well that is your faith statement. My faith statement is that Jesus did not sin in thought. It explains our beliefs about Jesus.

It's not my faith statement I take the statement directly from his authorised biography.

which part can you quote from the bible that says jesus sinned in thought?

Well, when he was out in the desert, and heard Satan's voice, that is 'sinning in thought'.. being tempted by power.

I believe you are mistaken. Here's the problem. Words often have more than one meaning. When a word is used, it is rarely the authors intent to employ all possible meanings of a word, but only the meaning of the word that actually applies to the authors intent. It is clear from the context of the passages about Jesus being tempted by the devil that the following meaning was intended.
tempt -
1: to try to persuade someone to do something by making it seem attractive.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

A person is not committing a sin if someone else is trying to persuade them to do something by making it seem attractive. Hearing Satan is not a sin.

If someone has tried, in the past, to tempt someone, then they have tempted someone. I know there are meanings of the word "to tempt" that do imply that what you are saying is true. But you are wrong in thinking that this was the intent of the author. I will provide a definition now for the word tempt that does not apply to the context of the passages you have referred to.

2: to make someone want to have or do something, even though they know they really should not.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

You see, Jesus did not want to do anything that Satan tried to tempt Him to do. Definition 2 does not apply. Definition 1 does apply here.

I personally don't see how your explanation fits the story, in fact, it seems to make the entire story totally worthless as a story.

Sorry, your explanation just doesn't make any sense what so ever.

The truth isn't always apparent. It's hard to see when your eyes are closed.

So are you saying that jesus never really thought about these temptations and therefore did not commit the sin?

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

What about retaining those evil thoughts?

Ask me when you are capable of forgetting everything you know.

[otseng]

It's hard to see when your eyes are closed.

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[10CC]

It's not my faith statement I take the statement directly from his authorised biography.

which part can you quote from the bible that says jesus sinned in thought?

Well, when he was out in the desert, and heard Satan's voice, that is 'sinning in thought'.. being tempted by power.

I believe you are mistaken. Here's the problem. Words often have more than one meaning. When a word is used, it is rarely the authors intent to employ all possible meanings of a word, but only the meaning of the word that actually applies to the authors intent. It is clear from the context of the passages about Jesus being tempted by the devil that the following meaning was intended.
tempt -
1: to try to persuade someone to do something by making it seem attractive.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

A person is not committing a sin if someone else is trying to persuade them to do something by making it seem attractive. Hearing Satan is not a sin.

If someone has tried, in the past, to tempt someone, then they have tempted someone. I know there are meanings of the word "to tempt" that do imply that what you are saying is true. But you are wrong in thinking that this was the intent of the author. I will provide a definition now for the word tempt that does not apply to the context of the passages you have referred to.

2: to make someone want to have or do something, even though they know they really should not.
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tempt

You see, Jesus did not want to do anything that Satan tried to tempt Him to do. Definition 2 does not apply. Definition 1 does apply here.

I personally don't see how your explanation fits the story, in fact, it seems to make the entire story totally worthless as a story.

Sorry, your explanation just doesn't make any sense what so ever.

The truth isn't always apparent. It's hard to see when your eyes are closed.

So are you saying that jesus never really thought about these temptations and therefore did not commit the sin?

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:15-16

If Jesus was tempted, yet did not sin, then temptation is not a sin.
Sin occurs when we mishandle temptation. It becomes sin if we allow that temptation to become action, even in our minds.

The best defense against giving in to temptation is to flee at the first suggestion. And that is exactly what Jesus did.

Sin is giving in, submitting to temptation. Entertaining evil thoughts is sin. Hearing evil thoughts is not sin.

What about retaining those evil thoughts?

Ask me when you are capable of forgetting everything you know.

Well thank you but no I'm not your god. Questions too tough? Never mind, you're not alone.

[The Me's]

[Replying to post 1 by A Troubled Man]

If we were threatening you, we would be planning to carry out the threat ourselves.

(Isn't that what a threat is?)