IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

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acehighinfinity
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IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #1

Post by acehighinfinity »

[Replying to post 106 by Divine Insight]
DIVINE INSIGHT:
Moreover, I find the verse that you have posted to be quite interesting and I use it frequently to defend my witchcraft against Christian criticism. The Christians often claim that witches get their power from Satan (just as Jesus had been accused of in the verse you've quoted).

However, like Jesus I use my powers for good works. Therefore, for the very same reasons that Jesus gave my powers cannot come from Beelzebub (or Satan) because a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Therefore my powers necessarily must come from God, for precisely the same reasons that Jesus gave.

If what Jesus spoke is truth, then clearly it must also apply to me. I cannot do good works in the name of Beelzebub, demons, or Satan because that would be a house divided against itself.

So I find it rather humorous that Jesus himself has totally vindicated all witches who do good works. Because their power (according to Jesus) can only come from God. Only God's power can be used for good works.
I would like to invite you here DIVINE INSIGHT
The above post caught my attention and I would like to bring this to the light. Now in another thread I am under the impression you study Buddhism but claim not to be a Buddhist, correct?

I am totally against WitchCraft according to the Holy Bible:
Deuteronomy 18:14 "The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so."
Revelation 22:15 "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Leviticus 19:26 "Do not practice divination or seek omens"

...the list goes on.

Questions:
If Divine Insight claim to use WitchCraft for good, then could you or anyone else list those examples please?
Does one see WitchCraft as Good? or
Does one see WitchCraft as Evil?

Feel free to add on.

Thanks in advance,
Ace

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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #121

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Bust Nak wrote:I am sure there is miscommunication here.
Lol... hmm, probably
Bust Nak wrote: You were saying killing witches no longer applies now.
That is correct.

Bust Nak wrote: I am asking you whether believing [the above] is a valid interpretation?
Yes, I do believe that this is a valid interpretation.


Better?


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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #122

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Divine Insight wrote:
And besides how can you possibly use Jesus to condemn witches when Jesus never mentioned witches in the NT?
I think you might neeed to go back over my posts, since I have never mentioned Jesus in relation to this topic, nor have I in any way suggested Jesus mentioned witches.

Could you be mixing my posts up with another poser?

Divine Insight wrote:I've already shown why Jesus himself has exonerated all "Good Witches"
Really? Can you link my to that post - I'd be interested in reading what you have to say on that topic.

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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #123

Post by Bust Nak »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Bust Nak wrote:I am sure there is miscommunication here.
Lol... hmm, probably
Bust Nak wrote: You were saying killing witches no longer applies now.
That is correct.

Bust Nak wrote: I am asking you whether believing [the above] is a valid interpretation?
Yes, I do believe that this is a valid interpretation.


Better?
No, because it is not clear "[the above]" is referring to what I asked actually asked. Let me be very explicit. Is the following a valid interpretation of the Bible:

"LEVITICUS 19:26 you must not practice magic" was meant for Hebrews and no longer applies in the Christian era. Today Christians are not forbidden from witchcraft.

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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #124

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Bust Nak wrote:Let me be very explicit. Is the following a valid interpretation of the Bible:

"LEVITICUS 19:26 you must not practice magic" was meant for Hebrews and no longer applies in the Christian era. Today Christians are not forbidden from witchcraft.
Oh okay, I see what you are saying.

"LEVITICUS 19:26 you must not practice magic" was meant for Hebrews and no longer applies in the Christian era.

That is correct. It is not permittable for a Christian to condemn and execute a witch.

Today Christians are not forbidden from witchcraft.

Incorrect. Christians are Under CHRISTIAN LAW. Witchcraft comes Under the general heading of "spiritism" and spiritistic practices are prohibited by christian law.
GALATIANS 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, idolatry, spiritism, [...] those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.


REVELATION 21:8
As for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism [...] their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death



To learn more please go to other posts related to...

WITCHCRAFT, SPIRITISM and ... NDE*
*Near Death Experiences
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Re: IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

Post #125

Post by Divine Insight »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Divine Insight wrote:I've already shown why Jesus himself has exonerated all "Good Witches"
Really? Can you link my to that post - I'd be interested in reading what you have to say on that topic.

Respect,
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Post #4 on the first page of this thread.
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Post #126

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Divine Insight wrote: Because of this, "Witchcraft" in Wicca cannot be evil.

For a bible believing Christians, evil is whatever God SAYS is evil.
If God pronounces giving charity to starving orphans "evil" is thus becomes by biblical definition, evil. Arguably, God pronounce the eating of fruit (at least one particular fruit, in a particular garden) "evil". He declared wearing mixed threads a sin and eating shellfish an abomination. So we can reasonably conclude biblically, that if a person judges something harmless, even positive, God could well declare that same thing evil, and for the believer it becomes so.

CONCLUSION: Since God declared witchcraft (without any qualifications) "evil", witchcraft, whatever the flavor is biblically evil.
Divine Insight wrote:Moreover, according to Jesus, good works cannot be done in the name of Satan, for a house divided against itself will surely fall.
This is true
Divine Insight wrote: Since Wiccans can only do good wor[k]s (because of their foundational Rede) then their power cannot come from Satan
Here, we have a faulty premise. You are presuming that what Jesus classified as "good" is the same as your classification of "good". However good is a value judgement based on an established criteria, to assume that because you personally judge something is good because (in your OPINION) it does no harm or is even beneficial and therefore that it falls into Jesus' defintion of what is "good" is inaccurate.

WHAT WERE JESUS STANDARDS OF GOOD and EVIL

"Your word is truth" - Jesus Christ

On one occassion, someone tried to use the term "good" teacher as a sort of honorary title, Jesus reply is interesting, he said "No one is Good except one, God". We can thus conclude that Jesus viewed Jehovah (YHWH) as "good" in the absolute. If that were the case, would it seem reasonable to believe that Jesus through one of God's laws was wrong, faulty or unfair? Yet that same law code condemned witchcraft making no allowance for "good witches" over "bad".

Further, Jesus habitually referred to the Law of Moses when teaching citing it as the authority behind his teaching. When that same Young man mentioned earlier, asked Jesus what he (the Young man) should to to obtain everlasting life, Jesus refered to several of the laws of Moses. Jesus conformed to the requirements of that written law and stated his purpose was not to destroy that law. Although Jesus did indeed emphasis the principles of love and compassion, principles upon which he said the law was based, at no time did he break a single one of them.

It might be argued that his silence on certain laws was a "silent disapproval" but jésus was extremely vocal about the oral laws (just as binding on the people of his day) that he disagreed with, going out of his way to condemn them. If he wanted to modify or condemn the law on witchcraft, making allowances for "good witches" there is no reason to believe he wouldn't have done so.

It seems logical therefore to conclude that Jesus agreed and supported the Mosaic law which included the condemnation of any sort of spriitism (including so called "good witchcraft"). At the very lease we can say that there is no reason to conclude his silence on the specific question of witchcraft indicated an approval of "certain types" of practices.

JESUS WILL REJECT THOSE THAT DO "MIRACLES"

Some "white witches" argue they use their powers for good. An interesting scripture to address this is Matthew chapter 7 verse 22. In this verse Jesus speaks of his ultimate rejection of those that do not actively do the will of his Father. He calls these people "workers of lawlessness" (NWT) or some bibles say "evil". (verse 23). However these individuals perform "many powerful works in Jesus' name" or "miracles" we would hardly think these works consisted of harming people. Rather they were no doubt doing what appeared to be good and postive. Where does the supernatural power to perform these "good" miracles come from? Evidently not from Jehovah the creator or his faithful spirit followers. If not from them, then the only alternative is that the demons have the power to perform miracles and use their own agents ("white witches") to dupe people into disobeying God.

In view of the above, it seems reasonable to conclude that Jesus did NOT view witchcraft, no matter what it's guise, as "good works" rather, as a type of spiritism which is contact with the demons. Jesus was often in conflict with demons, freeing people from their control. Those same demons, like their leader Satan can (as scriptures say) transform into an "angel of light" appearing to be entirely positive. But since the very contact with them displeases God, and those that are unrepentent will eventually be destroyed by Jesus, even the "whitest" witch, doing nothing but "charity" and "kindness" is leading someone to disobey their Creator which could lead to that one's ultimate death. In short, even a witch that goes about curing cancer, is doing so with demonic power and that is encouraging people to disobey God. Hardly something "good"!


CONCLUSION Under the Christian system, instigated at Jesus' death, mercy can be extended to those that practice witchcraft. The admonishion Jesus used "go and sin no more" must apply. So-called "white witches" are nothing more than agents of Satan, using their demonic powers in what looks like a positive way to fool people into disobeying the bibles command to avoid spiritism at all costs.





To learn more please go to other posts related to...

WITCHCRAFT, SPIRITISM and ... NDE*
*Near Death Experiences
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #127

Post by Divine Insight »

[Replying to post 126 by JehovahsWitness]

Your objections have been noted but not accepted.

If a witch cast out evil demons then the excuse Jesus used is valid for the witch.

Period amen.

There is no getting around this. I don't care if the Bible has Jesus renouncing "witchcraft", at some point. That biblical term couldn't have possibly applied to Wiccans in any case.

Wiccans use "Spiritual Power" just like Jesus did.

According to the Christians then Jesus was necessarily a witch too since he also did magical things using spiritual powers.

And besides, all of this comes down to your belief in "Witches". Do you actually believe that witches can wield spiritual magical powers?

If you do, then keep on arguing.

If you don't, then aren't you wasting your time arguing against something that you don't even believe in? :-k
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Post #128

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Divine Insight wrote: If a witch cast out evil demons then the excuse Jesus used is valid for the witch.

Period amen.
QUESTION: What about Exortisms?

"A house divided cannot stand" Many people quote Jesus words to mean that all exortisms are performed by good powers against bad. What they fail to do is examine Jesus' reasoning in full.

In Matthew 12 Jesus was accussed by the religious leaders of expelling demons by means of demonic power. He logically reasoned that that would be Satan working against himself. But notice the question Jesus next asked. "If I expel the demons by means of Beelzebub, by whom do your sons expel them?" So it seems as if the wicked Pharisees and religious leaders, condemned by Jesus as committing the unforgivable sin, in other words people who were thorougly evil, ALSO performed exortisms. Indeed possibly the "miracles" that Jesus condemned his fake followers of performing in Matthew chapter 7 also involved "exortisms". In view of the above we can conclude, wicked spirits can enable people to perform apparent "exortisms" according to scripture. Indeed if that wasn't an accepted belief then the Pharisees accusation of Jesus would make no sense at all.

So what did Jesus mean when he spoke of "a house divided"? Just that, that the EVIDENCE of Jesus souce lay in whether his works contributed to the construction or the destruction of Satan's ultimate goal which is to lead people AWAY from the true God Jehovah.

That there are genuine "exortisms" where good IS pitted against evil and "fake" ones (where the demons effectively swap chairs never "leaving the house" to dupe the gullible into believing a force is good when it is not). Jesus indicated both exist and so he was effectively saying, if you accuse me of being "controlled opposition" then the same accusation can be levied against you. The existence of "controlled opposition" does not negate the possibility of true opposition it just makes it harder to identify.


IDENTIFYING CONTROLLED OPPOSITION

The proof therefore of source would not lie in the "miracle" or "exortism" itself, but would be evident in whether ultimately the "exortism" brought people to the True God or served the goal of Satan, by making them slaves of the demons or of false religion. If a "miraculous act" encourages people to disregard scripture, then it serves the goal of Satan and the demons.[/i]

If it opposes bible truths it's evil.

The bible condemns all contact with the demons, which it classifies as "spiritism". This is because the power behind all forms of spiritism and witchcraft is demonic. "White Witches" disregard this bible standard and try and convince people that some forms of spiritism are good. There can only be two houses, Jesus was on the side of scripture, any powers that oppose this, no matter how "good" they appear, no matter how many "demons" they get to relocate (er ... I mean cast out)works for the opposition.
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Post #129

Post by Divine Insight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: In short, is the ultimate result of the "exortism" bring people to the true God or serving the goal of Satan, making them slaves of the demons or of false religion. How can we tell?
If we can't tell, then Jesus excuse wasn't even valid for himself. How could we possibly know that the works of Jesus weren't in favor of Satan? :-k

All you are suggesting here is that Jesus' excuse when he was accused of casting out demons in the name of Satan isn't a valid excuse.

Apparently you would have called Jesus on the carpet on that one just as you are doing now.

All you are saying is that Jesus' excuse isn't a valid excuse.
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Post #130

Post by bluethread »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Divine Insight wrote:
If a witch cast out evil demons then the excuse Jesus used is valid for the witch.

Period amen.


QUESTION: What about Exortisms?

"A house divided cannot stand" Many people quote Jesus words to mean that all exortisms are performed by good powers against bad. What they fail to do is examine Jesus' reasoning in full.


Yes, this is another example of taking a passage from a narrow context and making it an absolute. The issue was the power Yeshua was using to cast out demons, not all power to cast out demons. The counter argument to Yeshua would be that His casting out of demons is part of a greater conspiracy. Yeshua addresses this by pointing out that this argument could be applied to all exorcisms. Therefore, the casting out of demons is not de facto proof of Satanic power, as they were arguing. One must examine other factors, in accordance with HaTorah, to determine that, ie it violates HaTorah or it is not effective. Doing so in support of the ways of the nations, would be a violation of HaTorah. Ineffectiveness would indicate it is not of Adonai. Therefore, what is called witchcraft is by definition ra'(evil), if it violates HaTorah or is ineffective. Whether it fits the definition of the Anglo-Saxon term is of no concern to me. The passage is talking about HaTorah, not Anglo-Saxon culture.

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