Forgiveness vs doing good to our enemies.

[Elijah John]

It is well known that Jesus advocates forgiveness.

In the Lord's prayer, he teaches us to ask the Father to "forgive as we forgive"

In the Beattitudes he teaches that the "merciful will receive mercy".

And if a brother (or sister) comes up to us and says, "I repent" Jesus teaches that we must forgive 70 x7, meaning without limit, every time they repent.

I know a lot of Christians struggle with this teaching, but I think the key phrase in all of this is "I repent".

If someone does us wrong, and continues to do so without repentance, are we to forgive? Or do they then become an "enemy".

And we are taught to do good towards our enemies, and to pray for them.

So, the question for debate is this, what is the difference between forgiving a "brother or sister" and doing good to an enemy?

[Talishi]

Once the Christians realized that there were no longer any non-Christians to argue with they would instantly turn on each other. They already do that now anyway.

It would be Orange vs. Green, the six counties of Ulster vs. the rest of Ireland, but on a global scale.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

First

"I repent" Jesus teaches that we must forgive 70 x7, meaning without limit, every time they repent.

I've always had issues with this teaching. While it makes sense, we have no way of knowing what was meant (or even if this was said in part or as a whole). Which can be said of most everything but this one is quite obvious to me.
Anywho

what is the difference between forgiving a "brother or sister" and doing good to an enemy?

You can forgive someone and do good to them (or not) and do good to an enemy but not forgive them (or not).
In other words they two concept are completely different and can exist independent of each other, but not necessarily independent of each other.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]



[center]
Justice vs punishment[/center]

Regarding your hypothetical case about the serial killer, it seems to me that there are only two parties in a position to forgive the criminal. The victim (or the victime's loved ones), and God. It is not up to any third party (or fourth) to forgive, but only those involved.

That's impossible if the parties involved are the psychopath and the dead victim.

And it also does not mean, in any way, that a victim ( if not dead ) necessarily HAS the best judgement. For all we know, the victim could be a psychopath, too.

I think that's one of the reasons behind the idea of "Legal system".

Which is not to say that all or us as "society" should not pursue justice.

What does it mean to pursue justice against someone who has not the capacity to have empathy, such as a psychopath?


Should we PUNISH such an individual?
What would punishment serve?

If so, how should a psychopath be punished?

[shnarkle]

It is well known that Jesus advocates forgiveness.

In the Lord's prayer, he teaches us to ask the Father to "forgive as we forgive"

In the Beattitudes he teaches that the "merciful will receive mercy".

And if a brother (or sister) comes up to us and says, "I repent" Jesus teaches that we must forgive 70 x7, meaning without limit, every time they repent.

I know a lot of Christians struggle with this teaching, but I think the key phrase in all of this is "I repent".

If someone does us wrong, and continues to do so without repentance, are we to forgive? Or do they then become an "enemy".

And we are taught to do good towards our enemies, and to pray for them.

So, the question for debate is this, what is the difference between forgiving a "brother or sister" and doing good to an enemy?

I don't see much difference. These are just labels that describe where one is in life. If I see someone as an enemy, but later, possibly through the act of forgiveness; I see them as a brother or sister, it could become easier to forgive them. The more one does it, the better they get. If one gets to a point where they see themselves in others, they may find it even easier to forgive them. If they see in people the image of God, their acts of forgiveness could lift people up to a place where they begin to see the same in themselves and others.

Forgiveness is something that lifts people up. It lifts the person who is being forgiven because they may be allowed to feel forgiveness and by this they may be able to learn how to forgive others. it lifts the one who is forgiving in that they don't have to hold on to resentment, or anger. By letting go of these emotions and feelings, they are less likely to become angry or resentful in the future and they are probably going to be healthier as well with lower blood pressure, less stress, etc. People who hold onto resentment, and are unforgiving tend to more problems than those who don't.

Some people may not even be aware that they've been wronged in the first place. This is where forgiveness has reached a point where they don't even need to feel forgiveness anymore. They don't see any need to recognize or point out an act that needs to be forgiven because nothing bothers them anymore. They're able to see that the other person has problems, and that if that person ever gets to a point in their lives where they see the wrongs they have done, then it would be proper to grant them forgiveness if the person asks for it. This does not mean that we cannot forgive them in our own hearts so that we can get on with our lives.