Are sins equal?

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

I'm an Atheist, but I've always been curious about the idea of sin. The bible mentions things like murder, theft, hypocrisy, homosexuality, dishonesty, adultery, and coveting to name a few specifics. Would all of these be considered the same in the eyes of god, or are some worse? If so, why? Also, why are some of these considered 'sins' in the first place, like homosexuality?

[Wootah]

All sins equally keep us from God.

Not all our actions are morally equally.

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

[font=Serif]In other words, sins are not equal in their level of 'immorality,' but they are equal in that all are 'immoral?' Well, let me ask you this then: how do you know? Do you only figure right from wrong based on what the bible told you? If so, is everything the bible speaks against a sin even today, or do things change with time? If so, what things? I'm curious because I'd really like to know why some Christians get the idea that they can presume what their god would want and force everyone else to act upon it as well. [/font]

[ttruscott]

I'm an Atheist, but I've always been curious about the idea of sin. The bible mentions things like murder, theft, hypocrisy, homosexuality, dishonesty, adultery, and coveting to name a few specifics. Would all of these be considered the same in the eyes of god, or are some worse? If so, why? Also, why are some of these considered 'sins' in the first place, like homosexuality?

Since sin either puts one in hell (for those who reject Christ's offer of salvation) or puts Christ on the cross (for those who can be saved) I contend that all sin is of equal and ultimate disvalue to GOD.

The judgment to hell of the sinner is not because his sins are worse than other's but because he chose to deny YHWH's divinity and rejected the promise of election by salvation as false promises thereby self creating himself as an eternal demonic enemy of GOD. That is, hell does not judge the worse sins as worthy of greater punishment but is the place of banishment of those who self created themselves as eternal sinners.

An elect who chose to become evil in GOD's sight is just as evil as the worst demon except for being under GOD's care. This care is manifest two ways: while addicted to our sins we are restrained from the worst of our impulses so our sin is not free to be fully developed. This decreases our shame immensely. AND, HE fulfills HIS promise of election to heaven by salvation from our sins by the redemption and sanctification process where by we are brought back (returned) into HIS family and have our wills freed from the enslaving addiction to evil until we enjoy free will again.

Peace, Ted

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

[Replying to post 4 by ttruscott]

You're one of those Christians that believe people put themselves in hell, I take it? I know of a brief video that explains why this notion is nonsense, but since it contains language not quite suitable for this site, I will not post it unless anyone is really interested. Instead, I will summarize the story within the video in word form:

Firstly, the notion that we can either send ourselves to heaven or hell is merely an ultimatum that tries to eliminate any responsibility on god about where we go upon death. If we choose hell through our free will, then it was not god's choice, but our's.

Imagine if our society worked this way:

A man is at a TYME machine, an ATM, late at night to withdraw a few banknotes or something. He's minding his own business when a hooded man jumps from behind a tree, aiming a loaded weapon at this man's face. The armed man gives this guy two choices, an ultimatum: give me all of your money, or I'll shoot you. The man chose not to give the robber his money, resulting in him getting shot in the face and killed.

Surely, since there was a choice, the armed man is not responsible. The dead man merely committed suicide as he chose to die. And, since the dead man chose to die, the robber is free to go since it was not his responsibility.


-The Christian god gives us an inaccurate book as evidence and basically nothing else. He sends his son to die for our sins, a feat that most Atheists, if not all, find reprehensible as a form of salvation. Especially since he created us and allowed evil to exist in the first place. To top it all, we're then told that if we do not buy into this highly questionable ultimatum we'll burn, for all time, in hell.

No. I'm an Atheist because I will not accept that. If this god does exist, he is a ruthless, megalomaniacal, misogynistic, homophobic, genocidal monster that deserves not our praise nor our fear as he claims to have the power to make all things good and whole, yet does not do so and instead allows disease and war to spread like mad. How is his love so just, yet all of our strife and tribulations are all accountable to him?

[ttruscott]

Are you trying to say that your question was not a real question but an invitation to get me to speak up then to sandbag me with your already determined views?

ok, once is enough...

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

[Replying to post 6 by ttruscott]

Last I checked, this was a debating forum. I'd like to hear what others have to say, and if I disagree, I explain why. I won't apologize if I'm brash, or, perhaps rude. I just get that way. But, even if I am, I try to justify myself with reasons. If you happen to think that what I said in some fashion is victimization, then say it without backing away like you're offended.

Backing out with the excuse of "get me to speak up then to sandbag me with your already determined views" just makes me wonder if you have anything with which to retort. Please, if you have something, post it. That's what debates are- exchanges of ideas or thoughts.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

[font=Serif]In other words, sins are not equal in their level of 'immorality,' but they are equal in that all are 'immoral?' Well, let me ask you this then: how do you know? Do you only figure right from wrong based on what the bible told you? If so, is everything the bible speaks against a sin even today, or do things change with time? If so, what things? I'm curious because I'd really like to know why some Christians get the idea that they can presume what their god would want and force everyone else to act upon it as well. [/font]

I don't know. I use my mental facilities as best I can to discern what I believe.
I believe we are made in the image of God and so can work out morality, which then 'coincidentally' coincides with the Bible. What is and isn't a sins doesn't change over time.

God wants us to love each other. Again my presumption comes from the bible.

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

[Replying to post 8 by Wootah]

So, do you believe that all morality comes from god? Can morality come from a source that is strictly human?

[janavoss]

I'm an Atheist, but I've always been curious about the idea of sin. The bible mentions things like murder, theft, hypocrisy, homosexuality, dishonesty, adultery, and coveting to name a few specifics. Would all of these be considered the same in the eyes of god, or are some worse? If so, why?

I agree with Wootah that all sins come between us and God. Whether they are all considered equal is hard to say. Certainly some sinful actions cause more damage than others, so it would make sense to say that in terms of the effects on other people and on the person committing the sin they are not all the same. It takes a completely different mindset to murder someone than it does to call in sick when you're not really sick, for instance. I think it would be more difficult for a person that far 'gone' to repent than it would for a person who, in comparison, may be just a few steps away from repentance metaphorically speaking.

People don't get to that place overnight. No one just wakes up one morning and says "hey, I think I'll commit adultery today! I think I'll deliberately hurt someone who loves me and possibly destroy our family!" No, there are other 'smaller' actions leading up to that much more damaging action. So while it's possible that not all sins are considered equal, they do all come between us and God to some degree, and if we are not careful to deal with the actions that might seem like harmless little white lies, we are gradually hardening our hearts and minds towards God.

I'm not saying everyone who tells a lie or covets would eventually end up as a murderer or adulterer, but it would cause more to be in the way between that person and God than was there before. It's really not about the perceived 'level' of sin, it's about whether or not we are truly committed to keeping ourselves holy. Holy, of course, meaning "called out, separate," not necessarily the same thing as moral or ethical.

Also, why are some of these considered 'sins' in the first place, like homosexuality?

See above re: holy. Why are there dietary restrictions in the OT law? What is 'wrong' with eating pork? It's clearly not about cruelty to animals because eating beef is apparently OK.

If we use a basic definition of moral and/or ethical to mean those actions that cause no harm to others, then there is nothing 'wrong' with eating pork or shellfish, or engaging in sex with another consenting adult for that matter. But it is not holy. I truly believe there is something about sexual impurity that harms us spiritually. Perhaps that is why all the references to homosexuality in the bible seem to be talking about pagan idol worship practices - it was an action associated with spiritual harm. But I digress, I don't mean for this to become a discussion on homosexuality, there are enough of those threads already available.

There are some things that we do, or do not do, because we are concerned with keeping ourselves holy. Whether or not you want to keep yourself holy is your own concern. It's between you and God - and if you don't believe in God, then I suppose you won't care if you are causing yourself spiritual harm.