Are sins equal?

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

I'm an Atheist, but I've always been curious about the idea of sin. The bible mentions things like murder, theft, hypocrisy, homosexuality, dishonesty, adultery, and coveting to name a few specifics. Would all of these be considered the same in the eyes of god, or are some worse? If so, why? Also, why are some of these considered 'sins' in the first place, like homosexuality?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 9 by Princess Luna On The Moon]

What I believe is that morality is fixed.

If we define morality as a code of conduct then it can come from humans. Many people here have argued that something can be moral in one culture and not another.

If we define morality as objective then, no, it didn't come from humans any more than gravity did.

More and more I find morality to transcend human culture.

[Beth1]

NOt all sins are created equally. Some are far worse than others. I think it just depends on the sin, such as killing is way worse than lying.

[Bede]

[font=Arial][Replying to post 5 by Princess Luna On The Moon]

You say:
Firstly, the notion that we can either send ourselves to heaven or hell is merely an ultimatum that tries to eliminate any responsibility on god about where we go upon death. If we choose hell through our free will, then it was not god's choice, but our's.

And it is our choice.
Each person is responsible for his/her acts.

If we decline to accept God’s offer of a loving relationship with him and choose to live without him we are responsible for our act.

It was not God’s choice.


You say:
Imagine if our society worked this way:

A man is at a TYME machine, an ATM, late at night to withdraw a few banknotes or something. He's minding his own business when a hooded man jumps from behind a tree, aiming a loaded weapon at this man's face. The armed man gives this guy two choices, an ultimatum: give me all of your money, or I'll shoot you. The man chose not to give the robber his money, resulting in him getting shot in the face and killed.

Surely, since there was a choice, the armed man is not responsible. The dead man merely committed suicide as he chose to die. And, since the dead man chose to die, the robber is free to go since it was not his responsibility.


Your example is flawed because it does not parallel the situation with God. It is a faulty analogy.

In either taking the money or killing the man, the robber committed an immoral act.
God does not commit immoral acts.

Each person is responsible for his/her acts.
In stealing or killing, the robber is responsible for his immoral act not the one being robbed.


A second point is that even if the analogy were valid you cannot prove a proposition from an analogy.[/font]

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

[Replying to post 1 by Bede]

And it is our choice.
Each person is responsible for his/her acts.

What about, say, people in Iran who have never heard about the Christian god like you have? Or the other two thirds (roughly) of the world that isn't Christian?

If we decline to accept God’s offer of a loving relationship with him and choose to live without him we are responsible for our act.

Once more, what if you've never heard? Do they get a free pass?

It was not God’s choice.

Well, he made everyone perfectly in his image. He's just not good with geography, then. He can't be good at geography if he's creating people in places he know will not likely become Christian powerhouses anytime soon for one reason or another.

Your example is flawed because it does not parallel the situation with God. It is a faulty analogy

We'll see.

In either taking the money or killing the man, the robber committed an immoral act.

The immoral act isn't the major point. It's about the responsibility of the shooter being thrust upon the victim because they chose to die.

God does not commit immoral acts.

What about the flood or other mass deaths he's caused?

Each person is responsible for his/her acts.
In stealing or killing, the robber is responsible for his immoral act not the one being robbed.

Unless it's god, then it's ok because he's perfect.

A second point is that even if the analogy were valid you cannot prove a proposition from an analogy.

And why not?

[Bede]

[Replying to post 1 by Bede]

And it is our choice.
Each person is responsible for his/her acts.

What about, say, people in Iran who have never heard about the Christian god like you have? Or the other two thirds (roughly) of the world that isn't Christian?

They are still responsible for their acts

If we decline to accept God’s offer of a loving relationship with him and choose to live without him we are responsible for our act.

Once more, what if you've never heard? Do they get a free pass?

The Bible tells us that it is possible for everyone to know God. I won't bother to quote as you don't believe the Bible.

It was not God’s choice.

Well, he made everyone perfectly in his image. He's just not good with geography, then. He can't be good at geography if he's creating people in places he know will not likely become Christian powerhouses anytime soon for one reason or another.

See previous answer

Your example is flawed because it does not parallel the situation with God. It is a faulty analogy

We'll see.

Looking.

In either taking the money or killing the man, the robber committed an immoral act.

The immoral act isn't the major point. It's about the responsibility of the shooter being thrust upon the victim because they chose to die.

The responsibility for what happens remains with the robber.

God does not commit immoral acts.

What about the flood or other mass deaths he's caused?

Why are you blaming God for these deaths?

Each person is responsible for his/her acts.
In stealing or killing, the robber is responsible for his immoral act not the one being robbed.

Unless it's god, then it's ok because he's perfect.

God wasn't the robber.

A second point is that even if the analogy were valid you cannot prove a proposition from an analogy.

And why not?

Invalid logic. An analogy is not the thing itself.


You seem to have exhaused any meaningful comments.

Have a nice day.

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

[Replying to post 1 by Bede]

They are still responsible for their acts

You didn't answer the question. What happens to them if they really never knew?

The Bible tells us that it is possible for everyone to know God. I won't bother to quote as you don't believe the Bible.

Just because a book says it doesn't make it so. That's obviously not true. The bible is widespread, sure, but it's just not feasible for every single human on the planet to have heard it, especially with cultural religions, bans, or geographical limitations. Besides, disrupting a group of people who live on their own and have their own religion by telling them about yours is hardly fair, especially if hell is real and they decline because it's not what they wanted. 'Well, we told you now. You'd better believe us or you'll go straight to hell when you die!'

See previous answer

What answer?

Looking.

Still waiting.

The responsibility for what happens remains with the robber.

Unless it's god.

Why are you blaming God for these deaths?

I'm recalling the millions of deaths recorded in the bible that were directly caused by god. I don't actually believe they ever happened.

God wasn't the robber.

No, god's just the mass murderer that can toy with us with his divine will because he created us and we're unworthy sinners compared to him. I'd rather him be a robber.

Invalid logic. An analogy is not the thing itself.

Invalid answer. You did not explain why an analogy cannot be used to make a point.

You seem to have exhaused any meaningful comments.

Well, ain't that just dandy.

[Bede]

[Replying to post 1 by Bede]

Invalid logic. An analogy is not the thing itself.

Invalid answer. You did not explain why an analogy cannot be used to make a point.

Let's start with this

The first thing to note is that you have changed the point I made.

I did not say an analogy cannot be used to make a point.

What I actually said was "you cannot prove a proposition from an analogy"

If you cannot correctly comprehend what someone says then you are unlikely to make a sensible response.

And when I said "you cannot prove a proposition from an analogy." you replied "why not?"

Again if you cannot understand such a basic point as that then I see no sensible discussion developing.

Finally, as I indicated, your basic analogy is flawed. God is not an armed robber and we are not victims of an armed robbery.

So any further discussion is a waste of time.

[Ooberman]

Are you trying to say that your question was not a real question but an invitation to get me to speak up then to sandbag me with your already determined views?

ok, once is enough...

I think everyone is hoping you will stop preaching and actually engage the hard questions.

You have your interpretation of the bible but you dont know if Your god agrees.
We doubt it. You havent shown any authority to interpret gods words, even if they are gods words.

Why not address his objection? Is there no apologetic for it?

[tortured soul]

[Replying to post 1 by Princess Luna On The Moon]

The question still remains, What is sin, and where did it originate? Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15, The sting of death is sin. What did he mean? The word sting means poisonous stinger, and the word death encompasses not only the physical death, but what the apostle John in Revelation described as the second death- which is only the continuation of mankind's permanent condition. Where did this condition originate? The tree of death within Eden (or the tree of opposing experiences). Within the fruit from the tree of knowledge contained a poison defined as sin, which was injected into the heart (not the mind) which passionately propels all humans into their pursuit of opposing knowledge (contradictions). Sin is mankind's natural ability to miss the mark when concerned with the things of God. The poison injected into the heart is made efficacious through both a blind and base mind, or a mind that is totally consumed and focused upon nothing but life on earth- leaving God distant, foggy, veiled, and naturally misinterpreted. Who can truly understand Him? This poison is genetically transferred to all humans, as Paul wrote in Romans 5, in Adam all are "made" sinners. Because the tree embodies both good and evil, sin has nothing to do with conduct, but of genetic condition. Who can escape this?

[jerryxplu]

[Replying to post 1 by Princess Luna On The Moon]

the idea of "Sin" is pretty much according to my research and various debate with different religious groups especially Christian. Any act or thoughts that does not please God or pretty much what God does not approve of.

As for different sins, some christians believe that if you denies the holy spirit "I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.� — Mark 3:28-29