Hitler knew he was immoral

[Mr.Badham]

If it could be proved that Hitler knew what he was doing was immoral, would it change any theist's mind about "Atheist Morality"?

What about Stalin, Mussolini and Pol Pot?

If it could be proven that these four knew what they were doing was not moral, would this end the theist claim that Atheists are somehow less moral?

As it stands, I'm not interested in the definitions of proof or morality.

This post is for anyone who uses Hitler and his ilk as "proof" that Atheists are less "moral". If Hitler knows what's moral, but simply chooses to ignore it, does that say anything about morality?

[Goat]

If it could be proved that Hitler knew what he was doing was immoral, would it change any theist's mind about "Atheist Morality"?

What about Stalin, Mussolini and Pol Pot?

If it could be proven that these four knew what they were doing was not moral, would this end the theist claim that Atheists are somehow less moral?

As it stands, I'm not interested in the definitions of proof or morality.

This post is for anyone who uses Hitler and his ilk as "proof" that Atheists are less "moral". If Hitler knows what's moral, but simply chooses to ignore it, does that say anything about morality?

Hitler would be a bad example, since he apparently wasn't an atheist. Having his SS go around wioth 'God is with us' on the belt buckles sort of rules that out, as well as his writings.

[McCulloch]

If it could be proved that Hitler knew what he was doing was immoral, would it change any theist's mind about "Atheist Morality"?

No, it would not. It might, however, affect one's opinion about National Socialism.

What about Stalin, Mussolini and Pol Pot?

What about them? If Stalin, Mussolini or Pol Pot were shown to have known that they were immoral, it might affect my views about Communism or Fascism.

[Mr.Badham]

If it could be proved that Hitler knew what he was doing was immoral, would it change any theist's mind about "Atheist Morality"?

No, it would not. It might, however, affect one's opinion about National Socialism.

What about Stalin, Mussolini and Pol Pot?

What about them? If Stalin, Mussolini or Pol Pot were shown to have known that they were immoral, it might affect my views about Communism or Fascism.

Are you kidding?

The argument goes that Atheists don't know right from wrong. That Atheists are incapable of knowing the difference. The argument goes that Hitler believed what he was doing was moral.

It seems in the theist mind that all Atheists are doing only what they believe to be right at all times. I want to show that this is not correct. Sometimes people do only what they believe will benefit themselves.

Before I provide evidence or show proof that he knew he was behaving immorally, I want theists to commit to saying that in fact an Atheist does know right from wrong, whether or not said Atheist decides to do what is right.

It's a simple yes or no answer. "Yes I believe that Atheists are capable of behaving morally." Or "No, I don't believe that Atheists are capable of behaving morally."

It's an argument against William Lane Craig's proof of god using "Objective Morality". I think my argument is the same as any Catholic's when they say pedophilic priests knew they were wrong, but you can't hold Catholicism responsible.

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 4 by Mr.Badham]

I don't know any mainstream Christian apologists, Craig included, who say that atheists don't know right from wrong.

They simply think they have a conclusive argument that makes objective morality require a God to be rationally justified.

Many apologists believe God inspires a kind of moral intuition in humans, atheists included, that tells them right from wrong.

It also wouldn't matter what Hitler said - it isn't a conclusive argument, if it can be called an argument.

By making this kind of response rather than objecting to the actual argument you seem to tacitly acknowledge that it matters whether or not various fascists believed they were justified.

[Beth1]

I am sure that they all knew the things that they were doing were wrong. I mean how could you not know?

[Gracchus]

I am sure that they all knew the things that they were doing were wrong. I mean how could you not know?

Well, people can hold all sorts of weird and inconsistent beliefs.

I have even met persons claiming to be followers of Jesus who vote Republican!



Apparently, you can serve both God and money!

[Mr.Badham]

[Replying to post 4 by Mr.Badham]

I don't know any mainstream Christian apologists, Craig included, who say that atheists don't know right from wrong.

They simply think they have a conclusive argument that makes objective morality require a God to be rationally justified.

Many apologists believe God inspires a kind of moral intuition in humans, atheists included, that tells them right from wrong.

It also wouldn't matter what Hitler said - it isn't a conclusive argument, if it can be called an argument.

By making this kind of response rather than objecting to the actual argument you seem to tacitly acknowledge that it matters whether or not various fascists believed they were justified.

William Lane Craig actually said "The Nazis thought what they were doing was right."
I just watched a YouTube video ( I don't know how to link, but type in William Lane Craig Morality". It was a 4 minute video, but he says it in about 30 seconds".)
It wouldn't make any sense for a Christian to say atheists know right from wrong. What would make them better?

[Gracchus]

From his writings, his speeches, and what other people said about him, I'm pretty sure that Hitler thought himself to be a "good guy".

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 8 by Mr.Badham]

I'm sure he does think the Nazis thought they were right, but that is not remotely troublesome for his position.

He believes that all humans have an innate God-given sense of morality, some of which reject and sin.

Hence why he can believe atheists know right from wrong without any conflict whatsoever.