If god doesn't follow his own rules, why should we?

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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Princess Luna On The Moon
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If god doesn't follow his own rules, why should we?

Post #1

Post by Princess Luna On The Moon »

*Let's assume the Christian god is real*

This is mostly about the Old Testament where many rules (the 10 Commandments for instance) are listed. If god so rarely follows his own rules and often switches character traits, why should we follow anything he says? Wouldn't his lack of consistency make him rather pathetic as a supreme leader?

Also, why should we follow something even if we find it immoral? Why is harming other humans in the name of god justified? Or, why is god allowed to get away with killing, harming, or ignoring us, yet whenever something good happens, he gets all the credit?
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Post #131

Post by twobitsworth »

Exactly. That is what I was thinking.

I brought up the question because I have been told it was against God's Law and Principle to kill an innocent child as a sacrifice, however I don't see where god says this.

And, of course, when he commands it, we then know his principle/law is not opposed to human sacrifice. Just as you and I are opposed to rape, so we would never ask someone to rape another--it would be immoral to do so.

I think where we run into trouble is with our own sense of right and wrong--it is almost universally held that human sacrifice to any "god" is morally wrong.....and we cannot bring ourselves to see that our self righteousness does not match up with God's position on it.

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Post #132

Post by twobitsworth »

The question of God's Principle on matters like human sacrifice allow us to increase our understanding of the Creator, why he has done what he is recorded as doing, and for guidance for those who wish to live a Christ like life.

Ttruscott and I have in our own ways asked the same question. It would be nice to have a biblical scholar with greater knowledge than we have answer the question definitively.

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Post #133

Post by EarthScienceguy »

When speaking of the Judeo Christian God not following His own rules in the Old Testament I am assuming you are speaking of instances like. Deuteronomy 2:33-34

“33 “The LORD our God delivered him over to us, and we defeated him with his sons and all his people.
34 “So we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed the men, women and children of every city. We left no survivor.�

This is speaking of how God instructed Israel to destroy all of the Amorites their animals, the children their men their women everything. Why would God do this?

To understand why God had Israel destroy the inhabitants of the land that God promised the people we will need to understand what happened 400 years earlier when Abraham entered into the promise land.

Genesis 16

“13 Then the LORD said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.�
17 When the sun had gone down and it was dark, behold, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give[c]this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates,19 the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.�

God was going to have the Israelites wipeout all of these nations when their iniquity was complete. For all of those that wonder why God allows evil to happen. Just know that there is a limit to God’s patience and He can and will pass judgment on those doing evil.
What was the iniquity that these people were engaged in?
The god Molech that they worshiped was a god that required child sacrifice. And other gods they worshiped had them engage in sexual immorality, prostitution. The Judeo Christian God gave these people 400 years to repent. But they did not repent. So God used Israel to wipe these despicable practices from this part of the Earth.
God is consistent His holiness demands that sin be punished. It is a good thing because if God did not choose to punish sin in this way the entire Earth would be like Sodom where the men of the city attacked Lot’s house because he had two new men staying with him.
The Bible expresses a direct link between strong belief in the Judeo Christian God and crime.

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Re: If god doesn't follow his own rules, why should we?

Post #134

Post by ivysunday »

Princess Luna On The Moon wrote: *Let's assume the Christian god is real*

This is mostly about the Old Testament where many rules (the 10 Commandments for instance) are listed. If god so rarely follows his own rules and often switches character traits, why should we follow anything he says? Wouldn't his lack of consistency make him rather pathetic as a supreme leader?

Also, why should we follow something even if we find it immoral? Why is harming other humans in the name of god justified? Or, why is god allowed to get away with killing, harming, or ignoring us, yet whenever something good happens, he gets all the credit?
Because The God in the Bible(old testment) is not the Genuine Greatest Creator

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Post #135

Post by 2ndRateMind »

[Replying to post 132 by EarthScienceguy]

Or, as I interpret the OT, there was a whole lot going on BC, and the ancient Jews wanted to make sense of it all, and justify their own iniquities, and this was the narrative they arrived at.

But if, as I interpret the NT, God is the loving father of us all, and strives always for our best interests, be we Jew or gentile, Christian or pagan, the OT needs to be read for what it is; the mythology of a primitive people. It is useful only in that it provides the theological context in which Jesus came to offer us (a not uncontroversial, to this day) enlightenment.

Best wishes, 2RM

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Post #136

Post by ttruscott »

2ndRateMind wrote: [Replying to post 132 by EarthScienceguy]

Or, as I interpret the OT, there was a whole lot going on BC, and the ancient Jews wanted to make sense of it all, and justify their own iniquities, and this was the narrative they arrived at.

But if, as I interpret the NT, God is the loving father of us all, and strives always for our best interests, be we Jew or gentile, Christian or pagan, the OT needs to be read for what it is; the mythology of a primitive people. It is useful only in that it provides the theological context in which Jesus came to offer us (a not uncontroversial, to this day) enlightenment.

Best wishes, 2RM
OR:

HE is the creator of all but not the Father of us all as per Deuteronomy 32:5
"They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children, because of their defect; But are a perverse and crooked generation.
or: their defect is that they are not HIS children... which Jesus also told us when HE claimed to never have known, the wicked miracle workers though He created them. WE had a chance to choose by our free will to join HIM in a family relationship or to become HIS eternally hated enemy by rejecting HIM as an evil false god, sinning the unforgivable sin.

EarthScienceguy has already said it: Gen 16:16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full, complete. This is about the Israelite's return to the promised Land which had been postponed.

My first question is why did it have to be postponed? Was it because the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full enough for their judgement? Okay, then my second question is who wasn't it full enough for?

It should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about the totally defiling nature of just one sin, that the Amorite's sin was full enough in GOD's sight already. So then, just who still looked on their iniquity as not being full yet, that is, as not being bad enough to warrant this judgement, that had to take place before Israel's return?

According to pre-conception existence theology, there was a four generation postponement of GOD's judgement against the Amorites because the Amorites were not yet bad enough in the eyes of the Israelites for the Israelites to be willing to judge them according to the judgement decreed by GOD.

Therefore, the Israelites had to stay enslaved in Egypt or wandering in the wilderness until they became willing to judge them, that is, until the Israelites became holy (obedient) enough to see them all judged: men, women and children. (See Joshua 6:21; 8:26,27; 10:40)

Now, this judgement against the Amorites is typical of the judgement that has to take place before we can inherit the antitypical “Promised Land�, ie, before GOD's people can enter into the truest millennium.

According to pre-conception existence theology, this antitypical judgement has also been postponed, once again because the elect do not yet look on the iniquity of HIS enemies as being bad enough to warrant HIS eternal judgement and wrath on them.
Therefore, we too have had to remain in Egypt or wandering in the wilderness if we've been converted, that is, outside of the “Promised Land�, still waiting until we become holy enough to stand with HIM that all of GOD's enemies (men, women and children, even the ones that look like little wee babies!) killed, that is, judged and forever exiled to hell.

Peace, Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Post #137

Post by 2ndRateMind »

[Replying to post 135 by ttruscott]

How can I put this kindly? Let me try this, Ted. Your ideological interpretation of the Bible is inconsistent with both the gospel accounts and the loving, forgiving, redeeming nature of God, as revealed and embodied in Jesus. But then again, we all get the god we deserve, however hateful that god might be, and so it is not at all unlikely that you deserve yours.

Peace be with you also, friend. I truly mean that, because I get the impression it has eluded you thus far.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Post #138

Post by ttruscott »

2ndRateMind wrote: [Replying to post 135 by ttruscott]

How can I put this kindly? Let me try this, Ted. Your ideological interpretation of the Bible is inconsistent with both the gospel accounts and the loving, forgiving, redeeming nature of God, as revealed and embodied in Jesus. But then again, we all get the god we deserve, however hateful that god might be, and so it is not at all unlikely that you deserve yours.

Peace be with you also, friend. I truly mean that, because I get the impression it has eluded you thus far.

Best wishes, 2RM.
I am a Trinitarian...Jesus is my GOD and there are two sides to Him; our saviour and the Captain of GOD's army against YHWH's enemies.

There are two kinds of people sown into the world:
- the people of the kingdom and
- the people of the evil one
...the sheep gone astray are RETURNED to their saviour and the tares are gathered and burnt. Christ said so...
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Post #139

Post by 2ndRateMind »

ttruscott wrote:
I am a Trinitarian...Jesus is my GOD and there are two sides to Him; our saviour and the Captain of GOD's army against YHWH's enemies.

There are two kinds of people sown into the world:
- the people of the kingdom and
- the people of the evil one
...the sheep gone astray are RETURNED to their saviour and the tares are gathered and burnt. Christ said so...
Actually, Jesus commanded that we should love our neighbour as ourselves. When asked just who our neighbour was, He told the parable of the good Samaritan. [1] At the time, there was enmity between the Samaritans and the Jews. So I suggest it wrong to think that Jesus wanted us to distinguish between two types of people, the good and the evil, the saved and the lost. Rather, He says, on that day, I will know those that do the will of my Father, whoever they might be. [2] And His desire, and God's Will, is clearly that in this life we are to love one another, saint and sinner alike.

There seems little prospect of this universal, unconditional love, in your world view. Yet, it is the entrance ticket to the kingdom of heaven on earth. Love, and love widely, and love deeply, and just rest contented, secure in the trust that Jesus will know you.

And so let God dispose of our souls, for good or ill, as God sees fit, come the end of days.


Best wishes, 2RM.

[1] Luke 10: 25-37 KJV
[2] Matthew 7: 21-23 KJV

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