Should agnostics, non-theist and Atheists Be Quiet and Keep to Themselves?
On this web-site I know that non-theists of every stripe are vociferous and a force to be reckoned with. But everyone is anonymous! Many of the above are in the closet as far as letting their views be known to their friends and relatives. To become an activist for non-theist rights and respect could affect job, social standing and family upheaval. Fear seems to govern almost everything, and staying in the closet is just another manifestation of it (like the days before the GLBT found its footing). Should non-theists put their best foot (REASON) forward and take a stand against the inane and pernicious that now make up our local and national government?[/b]
Right and Wrong
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Bust Nak
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Re: Right and Wrong
Post #2It's just simple prudence to remain anonymous online. My friends and family knows I am an atheist. There is no reason why taking a stand would mean you open yourself up to attack.2Dbunk wrote: Should agnostics, non-theist and Atheists Be Quiet and Keep to Themselves?
On this web-site I know that non-theists of every stripe are vociferous and a force to be reckoned with. But everyone is anonymous! Many of the above are in the closet as far as letting their views be known to their friends and relatives. To become an activist for non-theist rights and respect could affect job, social standing and family upheaval. Fear seems to govern almost everything, and staying in the closet is just another manifestation of it (like the days before the GLBT found its footing). Should non-theists put their best foot (REASON) forward and take a stand against the inane and pernicious that now make up our local and national government?[/b]
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jgh7
Post #3
You don't know if taking a stand will make life better or worse for you. It could lead to backlash like you said. It could lead to you being denied opportunities that you would have had if you didn't take a stand.
If I was an atheist, I don't see how taking a stand could help me at all. It seems more likely that it would make things more difficult and worse for me.
If I was an atheist, I don't see how taking a stand could help me at all. It seems more likely that it would make things more difficult and worse for me.
Right or Wrong
Post #4[Replying to posts 2, and 3 by jgh7]
Post #2 and #3 are logically good and, not unexpected, reasons to some degree. However, the freedoms obtained and asserted in 1776 and 1787 are presently being eroded, one-by-one. The status quo is winning ground in the field and cogent arguments are left on the table as the intelligentsia retreat into the closet! Remember what Steven Weinberg said not too long ago: With or without it(religion) you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
93% of our top ranked scientists are non-theists! Many if not most of our professionals are non-observers or lapsed in their earlier religion. Yes, it is staggering the amount of people who still believe in angels and ghosts and alien abductions. So many of them do not have a high school degree, or have a degree in name only. They are self-described conservatives: "the status quo is just fine" with them. Another quote comes to mind, by John Stuart Mill: It is true that not all conservatives are stupid, but it is true that all stupid people are conservative.
I have been an activist back in rural Pennsylvania, not an easy roe to hoe -- but certainly invigorating! Sure, my business suffered, but I was way too busy anyhow. The clients who stayed with me indulged me and respected my work -- and my family and I survived. Why would I be an activist? Because I was fearful of the fundamentalists, here in America and abroad in the Middle East (believe it or not, they are of the same stripe). I just don't want to give any ground to these Neanderthals (bad to label Neanderthals thusly -- I shall use TROGLODYTES).
Post #2 and #3 are logically good and, not unexpected, reasons to some degree. However, the freedoms obtained and asserted in 1776 and 1787 are presently being eroded, one-by-one. The status quo is winning ground in the field and cogent arguments are left on the table as the intelligentsia retreat into the closet! Remember what Steven Weinberg said not too long ago: With or without it(religion) you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
93% of our top ranked scientists are non-theists! Many if not most of our professionals are non-observers or lapsed in their earlier religion. Yes, it is staggering the amount of people who still believe in angels and ghosts and alien abductions. So many of them do not have a high school degree, or have a degree in name only. They are self-described conservatives: "the status quo is just fine" with them. Another quote comes to mind, by John Stuart Mill: It is true that not all conservatives are stupid, but it is true that all stupid people are conservative.
I have been an activist back in rural Pennsylvania, not an easy roe to hoe -- but certainly invigorating! Sure, my business suffered, but I was way too busy anyhow. The clients who stayed with me indulged me and respected my work -- and my family and I survived. Why would I be an activist? Because I was fearful of the fundamentalists, here in America and abroad in the Middle East (believe it or not, they are of the same stripe). I just don't want to give any ground to these Neanderthals (bad to label Neanderthals thusly -- I shall use TROGLODYTES).
Post #6
[Replying to post 5 by jgh7]
I have been spat upon and threatened by otherwise good Christians, for simply, and peacefully, protesting some form(s) of violation of church and state separation.
Sorry for the delay!What exactly are the injustices that are occurring to non-theists ?What specific injustices against non-theists are you suggesting an active approach be taken?
And what exactly do you mean by taking action? Protesting? Lobbying? Something else?
I have been spat upon and threatened by otherwise good Christians, for simply, and peacefully, protesting some form(s) of violation of church and state separation.
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Bust Nak
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Re: Right or Wrong
Post #7[Replying to post 4 by 2Dbunk]
I don't think the status quo is winning overall: Abortion, divorce, creationism, doing business on Sundays, euthanasia, gay marriage, stem cell research. The tide has turned or is turning on all these issues.
I don't think the status quo is winning overall: Abortion, divorce, creationism, doing business on Sundays, euthanasia, gay marriage, stem cell research. The tide has turned or is turning on all these issues.
Re: Right or Wrong
Post #8[Replying to Bust Nak]
Mainstream religion is more secular (and understanding), that's for sure. But the fundamentalists criticize them for their "wishy-washyness" in keeping up with reasonable change. What is scary to me is mainstream religion is losing adherents -- and fundamentalists in the U.S. are gaining as the Mormons are, and as the Muslims (worldwide) are. True, atheists are increasing as well, but at a slower rate.
The status quo has been giving up ground, rightfully so. But at some point (a tipping point) overt religiosity may very well turn the tide -- that is why reason and freedom cannot take a day off. Fundamentalism may not be malicious as much as it is insidious -- these know nothings really do not understand the harm they are doing. No longer should they be given the benefit of the doubt!
Mainstream religion is more secular (and understanding), that's for sure. But the fundamentalists criticize them for their "wishy-washyness" in keeping up with reasonable change. What is scary to me is mainstream religion is losing adherents -- and fundamentalists in the U.S. are gaining as the Mormons are, and as the Muslims (worldwide) are. True, atheists are increasing as well, but at a slower rate.
The status quo has been giving up ground, rightfully so. But at some point (a tipping point) overt religiosity may very well turn the tide -- that is why reason and freedom cannot take a day off. Fundamentalism may not be malicious as much as it is insidious -- these know nothings really do not understand the harm they are doing. No longer should they be given the benefit of the doubt!
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help3434
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Re: Right or Wrong
Post #9[Replying to post 4 by 2Dbunk]
No, the John Stuart Mill quote is "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative.
No, the John Stuart Mill quote is "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative.
