High School Bonding with Friends

[BwhoUR]

Allow me to add a psychological argument (wish there was a Psychology/Sociology forum for this, hint hint):

There is a Christian Athletics "Club" at my 9th grader's public school. Clubs are supposed to be "led by students" and "initiated by students." This club is not. What's more, you don't even have to be in a sport to be in this club. It is a cover for church services. They insist on conducting this club during school hours when other clubs gather. My daughter, whose female friends are all Christian, went to the meeting instead of being left out. At that meeting a flyer was given out by the ADULT teacher conducting the service. That flyer stated the following:

I am God's Child
I am Christ's Friend
I am bought with a price
I am free forever from condemnation
I am free of any charge against me
I am a minister of reconciliation for God
I am seated with Christ in the heavenly realms
I am established, anointed, sealed by God
I have been chosen to bear fruit
I am the branch of the true vine
I am complete in Christ
I am a citizen of heaven
I am a saint

There's more but I want to keep my lunch. I'm surprised it didn't say, "Non-Christians are devils!" I mean why not, if they are saints, what does that make my child?"

Christians (and these are main line Christians) are continually looking for a way to infiltrate every facet of their children's lives. Now they can't even go to school without religion following them.

It is wrong not to allow children space in their lives to grow and change without constantly being subjected to God and religious teachings?

What are the negative psychological ramifications of not allowing this space? Isn't the result that they are writing checks their children will have to cover later, if they decide to move away from the church because almost all their friends are Christians? Isn't it wrong not to allow their children to form strong bonds with their non-Christian peers? My daughter may one day grow tired of all this and find other friends. Isn't that a sad thing for both kids?

For my daughter it really hurts to be excluded and in high school it is very important for her self-esteem to be included and feel like she has real friends. Our city is very very Christian, you can't escape it no matter where you go. If there are any atheist at the school they know better than to speak about it. She is one of the few who has come out publically but it is costing her. They want to change her. She looked at the flyer and said, "This is awful." She said she wanted to leave but stayed out of respect for their beliefs.

[jgh7]

Is it right for adults to create religious clubs for students at a school?
Is it right for the students themselves to create religious clubs at a school?

I personally don't think it's right for adults to create religious clubs at a school. They will end up being biased in that they don't create clubs for every religion. Thus they show favoritism towards certain religions and instill this in the student's mind. The students will either feel special because they are part of the religion the adults chose, or they will feel bad because they are not part of the religion.

However, I completely support students creating religious clubs at the school. It is strange as it can lead to the same problems as when adults create the clubs. But there is something about allowing students to freely pursue their interests in club-making that I like. I wouldn't want to stifle their freedoms by saying they can't create religious clubs.

[BwhoUR]

Is it right for adults to create religious clubs for students at a school?
Is it right for the students themselves to create religious clubs at a school?

I personally don't think it's right for adults to create religious clubs at a school. They will end up being biased in that they don't create clubs for every religion. Thus they show favoritism towards certain religions and instill this in the student's mind. The students will either feel special because they are part of the religion the adults chose, or they will feel bad because they are not part of the religion.

However, I completely support students creating religious clubs at the school. It is strange as it can lead to the same problems as when adults create the clubs. But there is something about allowing students to freely pursue their interests in club-making that I like. I wouldn't want to stifle their freedoms by saying they can't create religious clubs.

I totally hear you. I really do. The specific problem with "religious" clubs is that religion isn't a hobby, you don't dabble in it and it's divisive. What other types of clubs could we compare it to? Drama club, no. Spanish club, no. Those clubs can and do accept everyone. They are "culture" based and open to everyone. Here is the description of the Christian "Athletes" Club (Note that the word "CHRISTIAN" is in the title:

To allow coaches, athletes, and students the opportunity to meet and share spiritual values.

To share spiritual values, but only for Christians? Aren't there other religions that have "spiritual values?" Christ is mentioned in the flyer, some religious people with spiritual values don't believe in Christ, the Christian Bible verses cover the back of the page, some religions don't believe in the Christian Bible.

To begin to socialize students, children who are just now developing as young adults, and then to offer a club that is divisive by the description alone it is divisive (and condescending.) Should not be allowed in high school. Especially since there is a church literally on every other corner around here and presumably they meet at least once a week already for church. There is no legitimate need for a Christian club.

No, religious clubs have no place in pubic schools. If joining a religion is of your free will, for each of us have religious freedom, it can't be everywhere all the time.

[jgh7]

[Replying to suckka]

I agree something may be wrong at your school if the only religious club is a Christian one that was formed by the faculty.

But are you ultimately saying you would be against the formation of a religious club even if it was by the students? Surely at some point you should allow them the freedom to do so. Do you think it should be left only until college to be allowed? Something just doesn't feel right when you will allow students to form practically any healthy activity club so long as it is not religious.

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to suckka]

I agree something may be wrong at your school if the only religious club is a Christian one that was formed by the faculty.

But are you ultimately saying you would be against the formation of a religious club even if it was by the students? Surely at some point you should allow them the freedom to do so. Do you think it should be left only until college to be allowed? Something just doesn't feel right when you will allow students to form practically any healthy activity club so long as it is not religious.

I don't believe religious clubs are healthy. From personal experience, I don't think religion is healthy either.

[Haven]

In Utah, all public high schools have an LDS (Mormon) seminary located next door (technically not on school property, but for all intents in purposes part of the school). Mormon students get "time off" from school to attend religious seminary classes (during normal school hours), while non-Mormon kids (who are often the minority) have "alternative" assignments. Despite being unconstitutional, this system continues because the religious majority has the political power to keep it in place. I can only imagine how non-LDS students (especially in overwhelmingly LDS rural areas) feel about this.

I'm with the OP--schools should be entirely secular. Any religious activities should be kept far from campus.

[jgh7]

This "completely ban religious extracurricular clubs at school" is fundamentalist thinking. You're not much different from religious fundamentalist who want to fully integrate their religion into schools. You're ultimately denying students a freedom of spiritual exploration in their extracurricular time by doing this, and you're denying them the opportunity enjoy company with other students in the process.

[BwhoUR]

This "completely ban religious extracurricular clubs at school" is fundamentalist thinking. You're not much different from religious fundamentalist who want to fully integrate their religion into schools. You're ultimately denying students a freedom of spiritual exploration in their extracurricular time by doing this, and you're denying them the opportunity enjoy company with other students in the process.

I understand what you are saying. I know what I sound like to someone who maybe likes religion and doesn't think it's bad. To me, however, telling certain children that they are "saints" and "ministers" and "free from condemnation" is a very bad thing to say to children (in or out of church.) This club makes kids think that Christianity is where you find "spiritual values" there is no other religion named and they don't talk about other religions.

If the club was actually about all types of spirituality and was led by students maybe I would feel differently. The fact that it is not is the issue. Are there any successful child-led Christian clubs? I would think it would fall apart very quickly without an adult at the helm. I have to make decisions based on what is, not what I want it to be or what it should be.