Without God Life Has No Purpose

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Without God Life Has No Purpose

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Post by man »

I Googled that phrase and came up with this.

https://www.google.com/#q=without+god+l ... no+purpose

This is what religious people are being taught by their leaders. So we have all these people walking around thinking that there is an empty hole inside them that can only be filled by god and without god there lives have no purpose or meaning.

The thing that strikes me as being strange is I have always regarded all religions as myth and I am not a believer of any of them, but at the same time I don't have this empty hole inside me they talk about. I have never felt that my life has no purpose or meaning and in fact all of the things that these religious people say I need don't ever even cross my mind.

There is so much interesting REAL stuff to learn that I am so busy reading, working or doing whatever I happen to be interested in at the moment to have time to even think about this hole I am supposed to have inside me that I can't find. If anything I need a bigger hole to fit all of the things that I occupy myself with, my hole runneth over!

Anyway, I started thinking about teaching people that nonsense and it struck me as being a cruel thing to do. It's tantamount to saying, hey there is something wrong with you (when there isn't) and then telling them that you have the cure.

The phrase snake oil salesman comes to mind.

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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #91

Post by OnceConvinced »

JP Cusick wrote:
Your belief only affects your self - it has no effect on the reality of God.
And if he were real he would know full well that I have no malice or hostility towards him. He would know full well that I would open my arms to him if he were to reveal himself to me, especially if he is a loving caring god.

My problems are with people who conjure up concepts of gods and make claims about them that don't add up. So it's people I direct my challenges and questions to. I may come across as hostile sometimes but it's not my intention at all. Of course it is difficult, when all you have is the written word. All you see is the words, not the body language nor the tone of voice.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #92

Post by JP Cusick »

OnceConvinced wrote: This sounds like an opinion to me. What makes a Christian's purpose in life higher than mine?

If you are going to say you are serving a god, I don't think it is any loftier. In fact, to me it would be the opposite. If you are doing it for a god, you are doing it to gain some kind of rewards in the after life. You are doing it to gain favour with that god. Those of us who do not believe in God do what we do out of compassion and empathy. We don't do it to gain benefits in the after life.

You can say one of your lofty purposes in life is to help those who need help. You may say that it's God's mission for you, but it certainly doesn't make it any higher than say an atheist who does the same thing. In fact I would be more impressed with the atheist.

So what do you say is your destiny and purpose in life and how is that "higher" than say an atheist?

Please do list those things and explain how they are loftier than those of us who have purpose and meaning without God in our lives.

I notice you continually preach here about loftier purposes, but I do not see any attempt to explain what these purposes would even be. If they are not feeding the hungry, or being a great parent, employee, partner, performing some kind of mission, being the best person you can be, then what are they?

These were all great people in their own ways who believed they had a purpose in life, some of them not followers of Yahweh

In what way is it a handicap? For us when a Christian claims that they have godly purposes, we look at them and we don't see anything godly about them. They've just taken a purpose and assigned their chosen God as the one who gave it to them.

As a Christian I used to believe that God had given me many purposes. Most of those purposes still exist in my life now that I'm atheist. I just don't see them as God ordained. Yet they are surely just as high as they ever were?

What has this got to do with whether ones purpose is more worthy than anothers?
The reason is that God and Jesus (Christian) are sources outside of one self.

When a person uses their self as the standard then it has always failed.

Humans need role models and authorities in order to be healthy, and it is not just Christianity because things like a "12 Step Programs" requires a "Higher Power" because people need an authority. The US Constitution is the authority and the "Higher Power" for the USA. People create Kings and Monarchy for the same reason, and it is all based on the structure of the human family, because children need their parents to be healthy.

When a person tries to stand alone without referencing any higher power - whether it be God or some other authority - then the person becomes self righteous by default - and self righteousness is idolatry by making one self as the God and thy self as the highest power.

For myself I do not support Christianity as an institution, but I do support Jesus Christ of the NT as a Higher Power.

So Christ (being a Christian) gives us a higher standard outside of our self which we must live up to, and that makes it into a higher purpose.
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #93

Post by OnceConvinced »

JP Cusick wrote:
So Christ (being a Christian) gives us a higher standard outside of our self which we must live up to, and that makes it into a higher purpose.
Thanks JP for answering my challenge. I acknowledge you for that.

I guess I can kind of go along with that reasoning. It's a higher purpose because it's outside of oneself. It's not about doing what you personally want.

Of course that all presumes that the source that is outside of ourselves is a higher source. For instances, let's say my God was God A. God A could be a real evil god who might decide that my purpose is to do evil things. Does that still make my purpose higher?

What if it's just an imaginary god and I'm convinced that this god has a purpose for me? How do we know that the purposes we have come from a real god? When Christians say that God gives them their purpose, can we really know for sure that it's God's purpose? We can't. It could just be their own and they are simply attributing that purpose to a god.

The other thing I question is that even if there is a god, even if he's a good one and he has a purpose for you, can we always say its a higher purpose? Let's take two people.
1) Frank is a Christian. God has given Frank a purpose. That purpose is to go to Africa and set up an orphanage for starving and abandoned children. He doesn't want to go, but decides to obey God anyway.
2) Joe is not a Christian. He's an agnostic. He has decided to make it his purpose in life to go to Africa and set up an orphanage for starving and abandoned children. He doesn't want to go, but he feels very strongly he needs to do his bit for mankind.

Who's purpose is higher? The one who's doing it because God wants him to or the one who's doing it because he feels its the right thing to do?

I would say that Joe's purpose is higher, because he's doing it out of his own compassion and empathy. He has no god nudging him along. Whereas Frank is only going over to Africa because God told him to. It could be that Frank is doing it to gain favour and rewards from God. However Joe is not thinking about pleasing any god or gaining any rewards.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #94

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 92 by JP Cusick]
For myself I do not support Christianity as an institution, but I do support Jesus Christ of the NT as a Higher Power.
Please explain the conflict between what you said up there, versus this from another thread
I agree that he has the right idea, and yet it would be difficult to implement, but I agree with the fundamental idea.

The US first Amendment was a big mistake, and the "Bill of Rights" was not in the original constitution, and it has hurt the USA ever after.

There really does need to be a State recognized official religion in the USA, to have some real speaker for morality in the USA, and by not having this then the USA is severely damaged and inferior, and thereby the USA is doomed to deeper and deeper debauchery and filth.

I would not really like the conservative Evangelical religion of Roy Moore, but still he has the right idea.
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

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Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #95

Post by JP Cusick »

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 92 by JP Cusick]
For myself I do not support Christianity as an institution, but I do support Jesus Christ of the NT as a Higher Power.
Please explain the conflict between what you said up there, versus this from another thread
I agree that he has the right idea, and yet it would be difficult to implement, but I agree with the fundamental idea.

The US first Amendment was a big mistake, and the "Bill of Rights" was not in the original constitution, and it has hurt the USA ever after.

There really does need to be a State recognized official religion in the USA, to have some real speaker for morality in the USA, and by not having this then the USA is severely damaged and inferior, and thereby the USA is doomed to deeper and deeper debauchery and filth.

I would not really like the conservative Evangelical religion of Roy Moore, but still he has the right idea.
The "conflict" is that I do not support the former (in the past), but I do envision that we could do better by creating better for the future.

Just because people screwed up in the past does not mean we can not get it right now.

In the future coming Kingdom-of-God it is to bring the rightful institution of the Father here on earth as it is in Heaven.
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #96

Post by JP Cusick »

OnceConvinced wrote: Thanks JP for answering my challenge. I acknowledge you for that.

I guess I can kind of go along with that reasoning. It's a higher purpose because it's outside of oneself. It's not about doing what you personally want.
I can not say that I myself wanted God or Christ in the first place, as I first converted at the age of 25, and even then it was very hard for me to adapt to the new reality that I had to give up control to that thing called God, and another big change came for me when I was 30 and another around 40 years old, and I still today wrestle with God.

But now that I know too much - there is no going back - whether I like it or not.
OnceConvinced wrote: Of course that all presumes that the source that is outside of ourselves is a higher source. For instances, let's say my God was God A. God A could be a real evil god who might decide that my purpose is to do evil things. Does that still make my purpose higher?
It does get complicated and the deeper we go the more complicated it becomes.

As like Adolf Hitler had a God telling him to do evil and Hitler followed his purpose, and in my view we can not separate the true God from anyone nor any event so God had to be with Hitler too just as God was with the Allies on Normandy beach, so we just do not get to judge God as "good or as bad" but only that God's judgments are always righteous, see Revelation 16:2-7, or this:

Psalm 119:
7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
-
We might not see clearly at first - but in time we learn because the rightness of God becomes visible.
OnceConvinced wrote: What if it's just an imaginary god and I'm convinced that this god has a purpose for me? How do we know that the purposes we have come from a real god? When Christians say that God gives them their purpose, can we really know for sure that it's God's purpose? We can't. It could just be their own and they are simply attributing that purpose to a god.
It is dependent on the person - if the person is true to their self and truly sincere, then the truth is like a magnet which pulls any person into deeper truths and thereby pulled into God.

It is okay to be wrong or mistaken, so long as the person is sincerely seeking and adjusting to every new truth then the light gets brighter and clearer each moment and each day.

If it were not for overcoming trial-and-error then I myself would surely be lost in my old pits of despair and failure.
OnceConvinced wrote: The other thing I question is that even if there is a god, even if he's a good one and he has a purpose for you, can we always say its a higher purpose? Let's take two people.
Maybe that is getting hung up on the concept of "higher purpose" and I too said "higher purpose" so it might be a poor choice of words in some cases.

Jesus had a purpose to get His self crucified and that seems like a rather rotten purpose, and then Jesus tells us to take up our own cross which again seems like a loosing defeatist purpose, and we really do face trials and tribulations which do not seem to be higher purposes at all.

If we change the wording into finding "Godly purposes" then we are asking for gloom and doom, and I do see that as more accurate for a true follower.
OnceConvinced wrote: 1) Frank is a Christian. God has given Frank a purpose. That purpose is to go to Africa and set up an orphanage for starving and abandoned children. He doesn't want to go, but decides to obey God anyway.
2) Joe is not a Christian. He's an agnostic. He has decided to make it his purpose in life to go to Africa and set up an orphanage for starving and abandoned children. He doesn't want to go, but he feels very strongly he needs to do his bit for mankind.

Who's purpose is higher? The one who's doing it because God wants him to or the one who's doing it because he feels its the right thing to do?

I would say that Joe's purpose is higher, because he's doing it out of his own compassion and empathy. He has no god nudging him along. Whereas Frank is only going over to Africa because God told him to. It could be that Frank is doing it to gain favour and rewards from God. However Joe is not thinking about pleasing any god or gaining any rewards.
I would choose Joe too as the higher purpose, but Frank is not wrong or less of a blessing because of his belief that God told him.

In my view competition is always an evil aspect.

Why not expect that both Joe and Frank would be a blessing to each other by their differences, or maybe both are misguided?

Why judge them at all?
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #97

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JP Cusick wrote:

Just because people screwed up in the past does not mean we can not get it right now.
As long as we invent God we will screw up constantly. We have millions of Christians believing a variety of "truths" and millions of Muslims persuaded that the 7th century threw up God's messenger on a camel. Then we've got a variety of Asian folk who bathe in the polluted Ganges for some divine reason and others who wander around in strange robes and gurus who sit naked, asking for money. What a mess we are in with our superstitions.

As long as reason is thrown away, replaced by "faith", we will be at each other's throats. We crucified the wrong deity.

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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #98

Post by OnceConvinced »

JP Cusick wrote: But now that I know too much - there is no going back - whether I like it or not.
Yeah, I remember saying a similar thing to a guy in church once. A year or two later I was an ex-Christian. Famous last words. :)
JP Cusick wrote:
Why not expect that both Joe and Frank would be a blessing to each other by their differences, or maybe both are misguided?

Why judge them at all?
They both have high purposes as far as I can see. They both are worthy of acknowledgement.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #99

Post by JP Cusick »

JP Cusick wrote:
a higher purpose?
Maybe that is getting hung up on the concept of "higher purpose" and I too said "higher purpose" so it might be a poor choice of words in some cases.

If we change the wording into finding "Godly purposes" then we are asking for gloom and doom, and I do see that as more accurate for a true follower.
Perhaps a better terminology would be to have a moral purpose.

The OP has long ago been banned - and the title is really saying purpose or no purpose without any qualifier.

If some person works at a garbage dump then they still have a purpose and that purpose does not need to be judged as higher or lower or as better or worse or even to judge it as a Godly purpose or not.

So yes every person has some purpose in life.

The quest for those of us who care is to seek out some higher purpose or better purpose and that can be a bit tricky to do.

I do not say that a Doctor or Lawyer or Political Leader is superior to the garbage collector, because the social uppity classes would have to dispose of their own garbage if not for the lower ranking people who do the manual labor.

Therefore I say now that the search is for a moral purpose, and the moral high ground is nearer to God.
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Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose

Post #100

Post by marco »

JP Cusick wrote:
Therefore I say now that the search is for a moral purpose, and the moral high ground is nearer to God.
Or closer to hell if we make our own moral high ground.

I believe on this moral high ground we frequently hear the words: God is great. Sometimes God and Satan are indistinguishable.

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