A Refined View on Abortion - The Sympathic Angle

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Aetixintro
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A Refined View on Abortion - The Sympathic Angle

Post #1

Post by Aetixintro »

There are basically two views on abortions, the pro and the con.

Now, let's say there are heavy reasons for choosing either side. If this is the case then maybe abortion should be allowed? I think abortion should be allowed so that all people who need it may have their abortion and so that all who are fortunate to live lives that allow them to reject abortion.

Let's be clear: the ideal for both sides is that no abortions are carried out because nobody really wants an abortion, to kill a fetus.

So my entry is that the view of sympathy to abortion is to allow abortions and at the same time make good use of the contraception-pills or condoms to accommodate both views as ways of life!

Like it? Your view?

(By this text, I don't list the usual arguments pro- and con-.)
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Post #2

Post by Aetixintro »

Just a note: In my text I want to limit the pro-abortion position by saying that abortion is, in this context, limited to within 20 first weeks and that it does not include "emergency medicine" where "extreme" measures are used in order to save either, the mother or the fetus. If they intend to kill either the fetus or the mother then, ethically, why not overdose them by sedatives or similar that must be better than "other extremes". I guess this should be part of standard procedure for these cases either way! So as to reduce the dread/brutalities of medicine (by standard procedure)!
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Post #3

Post by RightReason »

Would you be ok with a similar line of reasoning . . .

"I think extermination of Jews should be allowed because I do not see them as fully human. If Jewish people are not an inconvenience to you, you do not have to partake in their extermination, but for those of us who do not believe they should have the same right to life as the rest of us, we should be permitted to dispose of them" It's a win/win.

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Post #4

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 3 by RightReason]

No, absolutely not! You seem to skip the part of my text that says:
Now, let's say there are heavy reasons for choosing either side. If this is the case then maybe abortion should be allowed? I think abortion should be allowed so that all people who need it may have their abortion and so that all who are fortunate to live lives that allow them to reject abortion.
There are no (credible/heavy) reasons for exterminating the Jews/Israelis!

I also happen to believe in the Human Kind and do not share views of human races as I think we are all the same with small differences. Thus, if I am to support Human Rights (UDHR) I have to support all people of the Earth!

Good? Ok? :)
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Post #5

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to Aetixintro]

What are the credible reasons for exterminating the unborn?

This is what for some reason I think alot of people don't understand. The very same rationalizations/justifications for exterminating Jewish people are used for the killing of the unborn . . .

-baby will be born with serious health problems or deformities (said about the Jews: they are weak and inferior)

-baby will be one more mouth to feed on this planet. I can't take care of a baby right now (about Jewish people: they take up space on this planet -- let us choose who is worthy of using the world's resources)

-baby will get in the way of my career (Jewish people are taking our jobs that could be used for others. They are in our way and inconvenient to us)

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Post #6

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 5 by RightReason]

In being pro abortion, you do not support extermination of the unborn (fetuses the size of a hand at 20 weeks in the womb).

But you hide the problems of the other side, children born to pedophiles, born with social stigma and to much pain in the ordinary world, born with Down's Syndrome, born out of rape and incest, born to a very young mother all the way down to 10 yo.

And the usual mode to prevent pregnancy ("the extermination of the unborn") isn't abortions, it's contraceptives and condoms and other.

You also fail to mention the abortions that will take place if abortions are outlawed... etc., etc...

Lastly, children are conceived and born all the time, they are not exterminated!

PS: I do not require people to have a child they do not want, also for serious health problems or deformities, Down's Syndrome and other reasons. You seem to do or do you require forced adoptions too on top of it all?
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Post #7

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to post 6 by Aetixintro]
In being pro abortion, you do not support extermination of the unborn (fetuses the size of a hand at 20 weeks in the womb).
So, now size matters? Is that fetus a developing human being or not? It’s really science.
But you hide the problems of the other side, children born to pedophiles
So, an acceptable reason to have an abortion is that the parent of the child might be a pedophile? I can honestly say in all my discussions I have ever had about abortion, I have never heard that one. So, very strange.
born with social stigma and to much pain in the ordinary world
What are you talking about here? Could you possibly give an example?
born with Down's Syndrome
Wow! Really? What is wrong with Down’s Syndrome? Do you think parents who have a child with Down’s Syndrome regret it? Children with Down’s Syndrome are an asset to this world and their families. And again, does your worldview actually include believing that those we deem inferior to ourselves, we can choose to eliminate?
born out of rape and incest
Again, why punish the child for the sins of his/her parent? Those children born from rape are still human beings who have just as much a right to life as you or I.
born to a very young mother all the way down to 10 yo.
Why or how does the age of one’s mother determine your right to life?
And the usual mode to prevent pregnancy ("the extermination of the unborn") isn't abortions, it's contraceptives and condoms and other.
Uummm . . . no. Take a biology class. The “extermination of the unborn� is killing a developing human being. We aren’t talking about sperm.
You also fail to mention the abortions that will take place if abortions are outlawed... etc., etc...
Well, those would be wrong too. What else do you want me to say about them?
Lastly, children are conceived and born all the time, they are not exterminated!
Yes, because life is beautiful! All lives. Not just the healthy ones or the financially secure ones, or the convenient ones.
PS: I do not require people to have a child they do not want
No, certainly they are not required to “have� a child they do not want, but they also should not be permitted to kill a child they do not want. Do you not understand the difference? If we weren’t talking about another human being then yes, I guess you could say a person can get rid of “the problem�, a person can refuse to take responsibility for their actions, but since we are talking about the life of another human being, then no, I am sorry they do not get to decide or choose whether that other human being gets to live or die. It is very strange for me to believe that some actually think (just like the Nazi’s did that they have the right to decide who gets to live and who doesn’t.

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Pro Abortion - New Arguments...

Post #8

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 7 by RightReason]

New arguments for the pro abortion position:
Pro Abortion
- Not a newborn for the cannibal right after birth...
- Not a newborn for the unfit mother or parents...
- Not a newborn as some kind of sextoy early in life or later...
- Not a newborn to fulfill a pervert hope...
- Not a newborn for the sadistic sodomy at any point in life...
- Not a newborn to fulfill parents' wish apart from the newborn itself...
- Not a late abortion to fulfill stemcell research need... (pro abortion limitation)
- Not a newborn to abusive parents...
- Not a newborn to dire social circumstances, like extreme poverty, hunger, thirst, insanity, war, neighborhood of crime...

It's more Christian to fight evil than to follow dogma. The little reference in the Bible may say "do not rape women", but is rather unreasonably used to defend the pro life position. Naughty?! :shock:

:study: 8-)
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Post #9

Post by William »

RightReason: Why punish the child for the sins of his/her parent?

William: In what way is the child actually 'being punished'? In what way have the parents sinned?

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Post #10

Post by Bust Nak »

RightReason wrote: What are the credible reasons for exterminating the unborn?
Lets not beat about the bushes. Most people are okay with medical reasons. The contentious reason is for the convenience of woman involved.
This is what for some reason I think alot of people don't understand. The very same rationalizations/justifications for exterminating Jewish people are used for the killing of the unborn . . .
Same rationalizations/justifications sure, but said rationalizations/justifications don't work equally.

Consider the following example: "It's okay to kill cattle for food" vs "it's okay to kill dogs for food." Same rationalization/justification, different persuasiveness. Whether the rationalization/justification is the same as that used else where is irrelevant.

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