Advices appreciated...

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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2ndRateMind
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Advices appreciated...

Post #1

Post by 2ndRateMind »

So, I've been off work for a time, for medical reasons.

But now I'm back, and eager to earn my living from private enterprise rather than depend on social security.

I have a few ideas, and any one of them might work, or even maybe all of them.

But I'm keen to keep it all ethical, to be a business that contributes to society, rather than simply extracting from it.

So, my question for the forum is, what makes a business ethical, for you? If you had a business, how would you protect it's moral credentials?

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Advices appreciated...

Post #11

Post by 2ndRateMind »

[Replying to post 10 by JP Cusick]

It is interesting to consider what might drive a truly Christian economy, as opposed to a capitalist one. If we truly loved God, and truly loved each other, as Jesus commands us*, then we would work for the benefit of God, and the benefit of each other. My ambition would be the well-being, not of me, but of my neighbours. And theirs likewise, such that each of us would benefit from the efforts of each other.

Problem is, the free-rider, who does not so love, and thinks it clever to benefit without contributing.

Best wishes, 2RM.

*Matthew 22:36-40 KJV

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Post #12

Post by Divine Insight »

JP Cusick wrote:
Divine Insight wrote:
2ndRateMind wrote: But meanwhile, we do actually have to earn a living.
That's the key right there. :D
I just wonder if anyone else (besides myself) ever questions that mentality that people are required to work? ~ that they have-got-to make a living?

Why do people accept such servitude without question?
Who mentioned "work"?

The concept that was being addressed was "earning a living".

If a person can do that ethically without "working" more power to them. :D
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Post #13

Post by Divine Insight »

Question: If you love your job are you "working"? :-k

And yes if we can get robots to clean out the sewers that would be great. :D
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Re: Advices appreciated...

Post #14

Post by Tcg »

2ndRateMind wrote:
I'm inclined to construe the Eden myth as a 'just-so' story. Seems to me, the hunter-gatherer economy of the time was giving way to agriculture, and agriculture takes a whole lot more 'sweat of the brow', than simply picking nuts and berries, and loosing off a few arrows at deer. Thus, Genesis is providing a primitive rationale for why all this work is necessary, and comparing it nostalgically with the loss of an alleged prior golden age, when everything was thought to be better and easier.
This is an intriguing thought. If the story was intended to provided a positive spin on the transition to agriculture however, I'm not sure why this transition would be cast in the light of punishment for sin.

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Post #15

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Tcg wrote:
2ndRateMind wrote:
I'm inclined to construe the Eden myth as a 'just-so' story. Seems to me, the hunter-gatherer economy of the time was giving way to agriculture, and agriculture takes a whole lot more 'sweat of the brow', than simply picking nuts and berries, and loosing off a few arrows at deer. Thus, Genesis is providing a primitive rationale for why all this work is necessary, and comparing it nostalgically with the loss of an alleged prior golden age, when everything was thought to be better and easier.
This is an intriguing thought. If the story was intended to provided a positive spin on the transition to agriculture however, I'm not sure why this transition would be cast in the light of punishment for sin.
I do not think the idea was to put a positive spin on agriculture, just to explain why all that work involved in ploughing and sowing and weeding and harvesting was necessary, when previously their ancestors had simply gone into the forest and extracted from it whatever they wished.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Post #16

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Divine Insight wrote: Question: If you love your job are you "working"? :-k
Oh yes. It bothers me that some jobs get rubbish pay simply because they are the vocational expression of an individual's love. Nursing and teaching are good examples. It's a place where the free-market system of allocating compensation lets us all down.

But I agree that if you love your work, if it is the social expression of your very way of being, then the burden is light, even joyful. It is to be devoutly to be desired that everyone finds their appropriate and fulfilling niche in life, through their work. But we shouldn't take advantage of them, just because they have.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Post #17

Post by 2ndRateMind »

While this thread is on the topic of work, and why work? then EF Scumacher offers his insights in his book 'Good Work'.

He lists the three purposes of work, as follows:

1) To provide necessary and useful goods and services.
2) To enable every one of us to use and thereby perfect our gifts like good stewards.
3) To do so in service to, and in cooperation with, others, so as to liberate ourselves from our inborn egocentricity.

It is interesting that none of these purposes involves personal wealth, or becoming financially secure, or achieving the millionaire level bank balances that make one rich. I guess sufficient money is just what follows naturally, if one is competent.

Best wishes, 2RM

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Post #18

Post by JP Cusick »

2ndRateMind wrote: While this thread is on the topic of work, and why work? then EF Scumacher offers his insights in his book 'Good Work'.

He lists the three purposes of work, as follows:

1) To provide necessary and useful goods and services.
2) To enable every one of us to use and thereby perfect our gifts like good stewards.
3) To do so in service to, and in cooperation with, others, so as to liberate ourselves from our inborn egocentricity.

It is interesting that none of these purposes involves personal wealth, or becoming financially secure, or achieving the millionaire level bank balances that make one rich. I guess money is just what follows naturally, if one is competent.

Best wishes, 2RM
Point noted that those purposes do not align with the evil system of Capitalism.

Capitalism is based on nothing but evil, as in greed and exploitation and competition and self serving selfishness.

Under Capitalism the workers and all of the population are being manipulated and exploited and misused to support this same evil system.

The claim that there are some people or some Companies that rise above the evils of Capitalism - is like a little sweet pea being lost in the big nasty pie.
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Re: Advices appreciated...

Post #19

Post by Tcg »

2ndRateMind wrote:
I do not think the idea was to put a positive spin on agriculture, just to explain why all that work involved in ploughing and sowing and weeding and harvesting was necessary, when previously their ancestors had simply gone into the forest and extracted from it whatever they wished.

Best wishes, 2RM.
As I've thought about this, I find it interesting to note that the Genesis story presents the first two humans as farmers right from the start. It says that Adam and Eve were put in the garden to cultivate it. Their transition is not from hunter gatherers to farmers, but rather from farmers whose work was easy, to farmers whose work was hard.

I'm not sure what would motivate a writer to tell such a story, but it is clear they didn't have an educated understanding of human history.

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