Advices appreciated...

[2ndRateMind]

So, I've been off work for a time, for medical reasons.

But now I'm back, and eager to earn my living from private enterprise rather than depend on social security.

I have a few ideas, and any one of them might work, or even maybe all of them.

But I'm keen to keep it all ethical, to be a business that contributes to society, rather than simply extracting from it.

So, my question for the forum is, what makes a business ethical, for you? If you had a business, how would you protect it's moral credentials?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[JP Cusick]

So, I've been off work for a time, for medical reasons.

But now I'm back, and eager to earn my living from private enterprise rather than depend on social security.

I have a few ideas, and any one of them might work, or even maybe all of them.

But I'm keen to keep it all ethical, to be a business that contributes to society, rather than simply extracting from it.

So, my question for the forum is, what makes a business ethical, for you? If you had a business, how would you protect it's moral credentials?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Since the entire system of Capitalism is based on evil, as in greed and exploitation and competition, so it is really impossible to join in with evil by being ethical.

A truly "ethical business" is thereby an oxymoron.

The challenge is to make our self into a better person, to seek the will of God for our own life, and then actively apply that to the evil world we live in.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 2 by JP Cusick]

Uh huh.

But meanwhile, we do actually have to earn a living.

How do you propose we should do that, without compromising with the capitalist status quo that prevails in the world?

Meanwhile, it seems to me that if I can spend my knowledge, skill, time and labour in producing something someone else wants more than I do, it is no great sin to sell it for the value they place upon it, and so earn my rent, bills, food and drink.

I will never be rich; but I can be a self-reliant artisan. And that will be good enough, for me.

But thank you for providing this context-setting challenge.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Divine Insight]

How do you propose we should do that, without compromising with the capitalist status quo that prevails in the world?

It's actually quite easy and I know several small businesses that do it quite well.

To being with there is nothing evil about capitalism in and of itself. It only becomes evil when it is run by greedy participants. It's the greed that is evil, not the capitalism.

(please note: I'm using the term evil here in a purely secularist manner) Greed is a destructive behavior in general. Especially for a species of animal (i.e. humans) that depend on social behavior for everyone to survive.

Can capitalism exist without greed? Absolutely. However, many people have been taught otherwise. Many economists believe that capitalism requires "growth" so survive and proper. This is actually demonstrably false.

What is true is that when growth occurs profit margins generally increase. Therefore growth is necessary if a person is greedy and wants to make a lot of money for the least amount of effort. When growth is the sole driving force behind a capitalistic venture the venture necessarily become "evil" because it then becomes focused on greed.

But growth is not necessary. Obviously it's necessary in the early going. The business does need to get off the ground and "grow" to a point. But it's a fallacy that it needs to continue to grow endlessly in order to survive. That is the capitalistic lie.

That is the mentality that has caused a very small percentage of individuals to become filthy rich whilst all their employees just scrape by. The people at the top (i.e. the business owners) are raking in all the profits to the determinant of their employees. That's not capitalism. That's just outright greed.

Capitalism doesn't need to be done that way.

What I've just said above can be proven to be true by the existence of small business that did not take the path of seeking endless growth in order to survive. Instead they settled for staying small and paying their employees fairly. And they have survived for decades, and in come cases centuries.

Caveat: It is true that in some cases the greedy capitalists have come in and purposefully put the decent honest small businesses out of business. It is true that when honest businesses need to compete with greedy businesses capitalism becomes "unfair".

So how well a small business can do in a capitalistic environment where greed is permitted to run rampant is indeed a tricky question. None the less, it can be done as there are many small businesses out there proving that it can be done. Of course there are also many small businesses out there that have been put out of business by unfair competition of greedy capitalists.

Whether the specific business you have in mind can run smoothly "under the radar" of the greedy capitalists can depend on many factors. But it most certainly can be done as many people are indeed doing it.

There is nothing evil about capitalism itself just like there is nothing evil about a kitchen knife. You can use a kitchen knife to make a healthy salad, or you can use it to stab your best friend in the back. The evil is up to the person who uses the knife.

Same is true of capitalism.

Of course, there are certain industries where greedy capitalism has captured the market entirely and there's no going back to honest small businesses in those cases. Things like automotive manufacture are a good example. You're not likely to start up an auto manufacturing factory and do well while staying small. It's possible, but not likely. The reason it's not likely is because the amount of capital required for start up would be impossible to recover if the business is run in an honest manner.

So there are limits to what kinds of business are still feasible in capitalism. You need to have a business that doesn't require that you sell your soul to obtain the capital for start up. Because once you sell your soul you're done. You end up needing to become greedy just to try to buy your soul back. Any typically that just ends in a never ending circle of digging a deeper and deeper hole.

So you need a small business that doesn't cost you your soul for start up. If you can get started without selling your soul, and you resist the urge to be greedy, you can create a decent and honest capitalistic enterprise.

Capitalism itself is not evil. Greed is the evil element. Beware not to fall into the greed and you'll be just fine. And know ahead of time that you're not going to make a KILLING.

But meanwhile, we do actually have to earn a living.

That's the key right there.

If you stick with just making a living instead of trying to become "well-off" you'll be just fine.

In fact, here's a tip: Keep an eye on your employees. How are they making out working for you? Hopefully they are making a living, right?

Well, that's your crystal ball right there. If you are doing much better than your employees then your crystal ball is telling you that you have fallen into the rut of GREED.

You shouldn't be any better off financially than your least paid employee. (assuming the same amount of work) At least in terms of "per hours of work".

No one in your company should be making less than you (per hour) or (per amount of work). That's the key to knowing whether or not you have fallen for greed.

[2ndRateMind]

OK, just to keep you all informed.

I've had some printing done, and that's arrived.

That was the first compromise. I wanted to print on recycled paper, with environmentally sound ink, but the lowest cost sources didn't offer those options. So, being completely 'green' would have cost me twice as much and more, and I don't have that sort of money to hand. Instead, I went for 'fsc certified' (which basically seems to mean that the forests harvested get replanted), and wrote a feedback form suggesting that the printers extend their range of papers and inks.

I've also just received my police 'pedlar's license', and so am authorised to go from house to house selling my wares.

That was the second compromise; accepting the authority of the authorities. I am naturally something of a rebel, with a wide anarchic streak in my psychology. But even I find even I can't complain too much about the decided democratic will of the people, as expressed in legislation by the settled deliberations of parliament and as interpreted by an independent judiciary. So, I paid my £12.25 with as much grace as I could muster, and am now an official 'pedlar'.

As for house to house; it would be nice to have a market stall, or even a shop, but I just don't yet have the product range to justify that. Meanwhile, I content myself with the thought that selling door to door is about as low impact environmentally as commerce can get. And apart from shoe-leather, there aren't much in the way of business overheads, either.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[JP Cusick]

But meanwhile, we do actually have to earn a living.

That's the key right there.

I just wonder if anyone else (besides myself) ever questions that mentality that people are required to work? ~ that they have-got-to make a living?

Why do people accept such servitude without question?

The Bible tells us that this working is a cursing because of our sins, see Genesis 3:17-19, and yet Jesus told us that we can escape that cursing because we are all children of God who have as our birth-right the claim to have all of our food and clothing and housing and all the blessings of life without working for any of it, see Matthew 6:24-34

Of course most people do not have any real faith or whatever faith they do have is not based in any real value, but even without any faith then why would not most people question that reality that we live in a condition of forced labor? ~ or else you get severely punished for every failure to comply?

I have talked to people in real life about this, and people tell me that they hope to retire in 10 years or 30 years or 5 years, so they really do look forward to a time when they no longer have to work, but they never consider the words of Christ and just seize the freedom here-and-now, immediately.

And if we take that curse literally in verse 17 then it says = "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife"

[Tcg]

The Bible tells us that this working is a cursing because of our sins, see Genesis 3:17-19, and yet Jesus told us that we can escape that cursing because we are all children of God who have as our birth-right the claim to have all of our food and clothing and housing and all the blessings of life without working for any of it, see Matthew 6:24-34

Actually, the mythological story of the Garden of Eden as found in Genesis does not teach that working is a curse. Before the time of the "Fall", Adam and Eve were given the job of caring for the garden. The curse was that after the "Fall", work would be hard. Thorns would now grow amongst the plants Adam and Eve used to harvest from with ease.

If the story in Matthew 6 contradicts this, it is simply another example of the inconsistency of the bible.

[2ndRateMind]

But meanwhile, we do actually have to earn a living.

That's the key right there.

I just wonder if anyone else (besides myself) ever questions that mentality that people are required to work? ~ that they have-got-to make a living?

Why do people accept such servitude without question?

But my dear JP, if no one worked, we would have no computers, or software, or electricity, or inter-web stuff. And there would be no DCaR forum, and we could not talk to each other. And I, for one, would count that a loss.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2ndRateMind]

The Bible tells us that this working is a cursing because of our sins, see Genesis 3:17-19, and yet Jesus told us that we can escape that cursing because we are all children of God who have as our birth-right the claim to have all of our food and clothing and housing and all the blessings of life without working for any of it, see Matthew 6:24-34

Actually, the mythological story of the Garden of Eden as found in Genesis does not teach that working is a curse. Before the time of the "Fall", Adam and Eve were given the job of caring for the garden. The curse was that after the "Fall", work would be hard. Thorns would now grow amongst the plants Adam and Eve used to harvest from with ease.

If the story in Matthew 6 contradicts this, it is simply another example of the inconsistency of the bible.

I'm inclined to construe the Eden myth as a 'just-so' story. Seems to me, the hunter-gatherer economy of the time was giving way to agriculture, and agriculture takes a whole lot more 'sweat of the brow', than simply picking nuts and berries, and loosing off a few arrows at deer. Thus, Genesis is providing a primitive rationale for why all this work is necessary, and comparing it nostalgically with the loss of an alleged prior golden age, when everything was thought to be better and easier.

We are still guilty of this positively biased distortion of the past, today.

Best wishes, 2RM

[JP Cusick]

Actually, the mythological story of the Garden of Eden as found in Genesis does not teach that working is a curse. Before the time of the "Fall", Adam and Eve were given the job of caring for the garden. The curse was that after the "Fall", work would be hard. Thorns would now grow amongst the plants Adam and Eve used to harvest from with ease.

If the story in Matthew 6 contradicts this, it is simply another example of the inconsistency of the bible.

But my dear JP, if no one worked, we would have no computers, or software, or electricity, or inter-web stuff. And there would be no DCaR forum, and we could not talk to each other. And I, for one, would count that a loss.

I do not really mean to stop all activity, because even Jesus said to seek the truth:

Matthew 6:
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

And tending our own garden to eat our own vegetables is not really comparable to having to work a 40 hour week job just to survive in this evil world.

I remember a way that the Jehovah Witnesses interpreted work to be = "productive activity" - as in working for God and not for mammon.

Under Capitalism the workers and all of the population are being manipulated and exploited and misused to support this same evil system.