Pope bans death penalty

[2ndRateMind]

Given that one of the themes of his pontificate is 'mercy', this is a consistent ruling. But is it a morally correct one?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

Given that one of the themes of his pontificate is 'mercy', this is a consistent ruling. But is it a morally correct one?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Given that the Pope is protected by the Swiss army, that is an easy thing to say. It kind of reminds me of the actors who say guns should be banded while they are surrounded by armed security.

[2ndRateMind]

Given that one of the themes of his pontificate is 'mercy', this is a consistent ruling. But is it a morally correct one?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Given that the Pope is protected by the Swiss army, that is an easy thing to say. It kind of reminds me of the actors who say guns should be banded while they are surrounded by armed security.

Hmmm. I don't think we actually need to make this discussion personal. We can argue the pros and cons of capital punishment quite well enough without disparaging anyone. But, meanwhile, I suspect that Pope Francis would say, even were he assassinated: 'do not kill my killer'.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

Given that one of the themes of his pontificate is 'mercy', this is a consistent ruling. But is it a morally correct one?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Given that the Pope is protected by the Swiss army, that is an easy thing to say. It kind of reminds me of the actors who say guns should be banded while they are surrounded by armed security.

Hmmm. I don't think we actually need to make this discussion personal. We can argue the pros and cons of capital punishment quite well enough without disparaging anyone. But, meanwhile, I suspect that Pope Francis would say, even were he assassinated: 'do not kill my killer'.

Best wishes, 2RM.

That is not a personal comment. I was pointing out the double standard. That said, the primary objection to abolishing the death penalty is what is to be done with those who are proven mass murderers? A related question, what of "self defense"? What is to stop the public from taking the law into their own hands, making sure that the perp never comes to trial?

[2ndRateMind]

Given that one of the themes of his pontificate is 'mercy', this is a consistent ruling. But is it a morally correct one?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Given that the Pope is protected by the Swiss army, that is an easy thing to say. It kind of reminds me of the actors who say guns should be banded while they are surrounded by armed security.

Hmmm. I don't think we actually need to make this discussion personal. We can argue the pros and cons of capital punishment quite well enough without disparaging anyone. But, meanwhile, I suspect that Pope Francis would say, even were he assassinated: 'do not kill my killer'.

Best wishes, 2RM.

That is not a personal comment. I was pointing out the double standard. That said, the primary objection to abolishing the death penalty is what is to be done with those who are proven mass murderers? A related question, what of "self defense"? What is to stop the public from taking the law into their own hands, making sure that the perp never comes to trial?

Well, I am not sure there is a double standard. The Pope is high-value target for any maladjusted, malcontented, malicious nutter who wants his name in the papers. Clearly he needs security. I am not sure if you are, or I am, in quite the same way.

What is to be done with mass murderers? Lock 'em up.

What is to stop the public from taking the law into their own hands? Only that it is illegal, and any successful lynch mob is just as guilty as the object of their venomous hatred.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

Well, I am not sure there is a double standard. The Pope is high-value target for any maladjusted, malcontented, malicious nutter who wants his name in the papers. Clearly he needs security. I am not sure if you are, or I am, in quite the same way.

You are not saying there is no double standard. You are arguing that the double standard is justified based on need. How much need is necessary for people to be justified in protecting themselves?

What is to be done with mass murderers? Lock 'em up.

What is to stop the public from taking the law into their own hands? Only that it is illegal, and any successful lynch mob is just as guilty as the object of their venomous hatred.

I said nothing about a lynch mob, though that could be a more extreme possibility. I'm just saying that if too many mass murderers get professorships at Ironbar University, individuals might just find ways to make sure that future murders somehow end up as suicide missions. I do not say this because I hope for it. I am just saying that the death penalty helps to reinforce the rule of law.

[Wootah]

Given that one of the themes of his pontificate is 'mercy', this is a consistent ruling. But is it a morally correct one?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Given that the Pope is protected by the Swiss army, that is an easy thing to say. It kind of reminds me of the actors who say guns should be banded while they are surrounded by armed security.

Hmmm. I don't think we actually need to make this discussion personal. We can argue the pros and cons of capital punishment quite well enough without disparaging anyone. But, meanwhile, I suspect that Pope Francis would say, even were he assassinated: 'do not kill my killer'.

Best wishes, 2RM.

How cool! Which famous movie star are you?

[Tcg]

Given that one of the themes of his pontificate is 'mercy', this is a consistent ruling. But is it a morally correct one?

Best wishes, 2RM.

I thought mercy was also one of the themes from the Judeo-Christian God himself?

Many regular posters who follow this God often claim that our understanding of morality has it's source in this God. Given that, I find it odd that no one has yet attempted to compare God's morality with that of the Pope. Wouldn't that be the proper procedure if God truly is the source of morality?

Perhaps the Pope is doing that very thing given that I'm sure he's read:

"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."

Micah 6:8

I can't answer whether or not he is applying this verse accurately, but he sure seems to be trying to do the very thing so many claim is the key to understanding morality. You'd think that'd be viewed as a good thing.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 8 by Tcg]

Yes, this is my attitude also. Jesus came not to punish sinners, but to redeem them (read, us). And I feel it is incumbent on all of us who follow His lead to do likewise.

The major purposes of punishment, according to modern thinking, are as follows:
1) Retribution. (vengeance)
2) Incapacitation. (preventing re-offense)
3) Deterrence. (persuading others not to repeat the offense)
4) Restitution. (making good the effects of the crime)
5) Rehabilitation. (Returning the offender to society, devoid of the desire to re-offend)

Seems to me the death penalty is all about retribution and incapacitation. Deterrence is debatable; if it worked perfectly, there would be no capital crimes committed in states with the death penalty. But as for restitution and rehabilitation, then the death penalty fails utterly. A dead criminal cannot make restorative amends for his crime, or be rehabilitated.

However, all these purposes can be achieved under an enlightened regime of incarceration, and I am inclined to the view that this is what Jesus, and God, would prefer from us.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

However, all these purposes can be achieved under an enlightened regime of incarceration, and I am inclined to the view that this is what Jesus, and God, would prefer from us.

Best wishes, 2RM.

How would "an enlightened regime of incarceration" provide restitution and assure rehabilitation of the mass murderer?