Where's the beef?

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2ndRateMind
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Where's the beef?

Post #1

Post by 2ndRateMind »

It seems, I heard this morning on the radio, that the scientists think we need to limit global warming to around 1.5 degrees c to avoid widespread catastophe. The problem is, current trends put us at about 3 degrees c hotter.

One of the remedies they suggest is to reduce the consumption of meat, since meat production generates a whole lot of methane (CH4), and uses a whole lot of fossil fuels, which generates a whole lot of carbon dioxide (CO2). CH4 and CO2 are both green-house gases, which absorb more of the sun's energy in the form of heat than is needed to maintain the climate that we are used to.

One contributor I heard was advocating one portion of meat each, per week.

Let's assume they just might be right.

So my question is: would you sacrifice meat eating to save the world for your children, and theirs?

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #11

Post by bluethread »

2ndRateMind wrote:
Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

No. Its just more state control.
Who mentioned the state, and just how does the state impinge on your decision whether or not to eat less meat?

Best wishes, 2RM.
That is an important consideration. If there is a problem, the state exacerbates the problem by subsidy and regulation already. If one thinks that meat consumption is leading to a global catastrophe, then reducing regulations and subsidies will free the markets to make the appropriate decisions, based on what people value the most. Reducing subsidies will reduce supply by decreasing the number of inefficient producers and reduce demand by increasing prices. Though reduced regulation will reduce cost and reduce prices, it will also move the decisions to the consumers, who will then decide who gets the supply based on who values it the most, rather than who the government deems to deserve it.

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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #12

Post by Purple Knight »

Every decade or two we have more measures thought up to control each of our total footprints on the planet.

If we do this thing, and that thing, and the other thing, each of us can reduce our total impact by 20%! Wow!

...And in 20 years, there are 20% more people.

...Now we have even more measures to reduce our impacts by even more.

It's an exercise in futility without population control. In fact, it's outright counterproductive. Every time you preserve a resource, some whore pops out another kid to suck it all up. All you're doing when you conserve nowadays is making room for more excess people who won't conserve.

That doesn't stop me from all the measures that were sensible when I was young. I'm a huge Captain Planet baby and I still do rather religiously what Captain Planet told me to. I pay an extra $30/month so I can have a recycling bin, even though I know it just gets shipped off to India to be "sorted" which means dumped in the ocean anyway. I'm doing what I ought.

At some point it's perfectly fine for the people who have only self-replaced, to say, no, no more, I shouldn't have to conserve so the rest of you can over-reproduce. I shouldn't have to preserve so you can expend. I shouldn't have to build up so you can tear down. I wasn't put on this Earth to be the ant to your grasshopper and sacrifice my food stores so you can make it through the winter.

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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #13

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:29 pm Every decade or two we have more measures thought up to control each of our total footprints on the planet.

If we do this thing, and that thing, and the other thing, each of us can reduce our total impact by 20%! Wow!

...And in 20 years, there are 20% more people.

...Now we have even more measures to reduce our impacts by even more.

It's an exercise in futility without population control. In fact, it's outright counterproductive. Every time you preserve a resource, some whore pops out another kid to suck it all up. All you're doing when you conserve nowadays is making room for more excess people who won't conserve.

That doesn't stop me from all the measures that were sensible when I was young. I'm a huge Captain Planet baby and I still do rather religiously what Captain Planet told me to. I pay an extra $30/month so I can have a recycling bin, even though I know it just gets shipped off to India to be "sorted" which means dumped in the ocean anyway. I'm doing what I ought.

At some point it's perfectly fine for the people who have only self-replaced, to say, no, no more, I shouldn't have to conserve so the rest of you can over-reproduce. I shouldn't have to preserve so you can expend. I shouldn't have to build up so you can tear down. I wasn't put on this Earth to be the ant to your grasshopper and sacrifice my food stores so you can make it through the winter.
I am pleased you have noticed that our Earthly home is finite in resources, which is a matter most economists ignore as an inconvenient truth as they pursue their dream of constant economic growth. As for population control, I rather like the idea that if one educates girls, they tend to limit their family size all by themselves, without any need for draconian laws.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #14

Post by Purple Knight »

2ndRateMind wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:45 amAs for population control, I rather like the idea that if one educates girls, they tend to limit their family size all by themselves, without any need for draconian laws.
Such a policy is only selecting for people who ignore you. We already do this and the only difference it makes is that some people are making more and more sacrifices so others can take more and more, this time in the form of reproductive success.

Voluntarism is nice if everyone does it. If people ignore it and are rewarded, both because they now have more reproductive success AND because their three dozen children have more resources because others sacrificed their reproductive success, your policy amounts to taking from the conscientious in order to reward the worst.

As long as there are those worst people who will pop out another baby every time extra resources appear, you're actually hurting the population's ability to keep itself in check when you have the nice people not reproduce so the people who ignore you can reproduce more.

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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #15

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:30 pm
2ndRateMind wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:45 amAs for population control, I rather like the idea that if one educates girls, they tend to limit their family size all by themselves, without any need for draconian laws.
Such a policy is only selecting for people who ignore you. We already do this and the only difference it makes is that some people are making more and more sacrifices so others can take more and more, this time in the form of reproductive success.

Voluntarism is nice if everyone does it. If people ignore it and are rewarded, both because they now have more reproductive success AND because their three dozen children have more resources because others sacrificed their reproductive success, your policy amounts to taking from the conscientious in order to reward the worst.

As long as there are those worst people who will pop out another baby every time extra resources appear, you're actually hurting the population's ability to keep itself in check when you have the nice people not reproduce so the people who ignore you can reproduce more.
Perhaps I should have stated that I am thinking globally rather than nationally and parochially eg, sub Saharan Africa, and southern Asia. Unfortunately among the poor, then the education of girls runs a sad second to the education of boys.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #16

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to 2ndRateMind in post #1]
So my question is: would you sacrifice meat eating to save the world for your children, and theirs?

I have been limiting my meat a lot lately; probably a reduction of 80-90%. I'm doing it for moral reasons - any environmental reasons would be a welcomed benefit
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #17

Post by Purple Knight »

Tcg wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:10 pmI couldn't agree more that we need to make changes. My point is that we need a concerted effort to achieve this. It is a much more difficult endeavor than any one of us alone deciding to stop eating meat.
Correct. And even with a concerted effort, when every person has stopped eating meat and reduced their carbon footprint by 20% (very generous btw), but in 20 years, when there are 20% more people, we'll need more concerted efforts and more measures to reduce each of our carbon footprints even more. And then even that won't be enough.

There's only one measure that will help in the long run. It's just not fashionable or nice to talk about it.

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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #18

Post by Tcg »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:59 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:10 pmI couldn't agree more that we need to make changes. My point is that we need a concerted effort to achieve this. It is a much more difficult endeavor than any one of us alone deciding to stop eating meat.
Correct. And even with a concerted effort, when every person has stopped eating meat and reduced their carbon footprint by 20% (very generous btw), but in 20 years, when there are 20% more people, we'll need more concerted efforts and more measures to reduce each of our carbon footprints even more. And then even that won't be enough.

There's only one measure that will help in the long run. It's just not fashionable or nice to talk about it.
If we continue not to take action, that may very well cause at some point that which is not fashionable or nice to talk about. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but eventually it's gonna catch up to us.


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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #19

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Divine Insight wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:38 pm
2ndRateMind wrote: So my question is: would you sacrifice meat eating to save the world for your children, and theirs?
I don't have any children.

Still, would be totally willing to become 100% vegan to save humanity in general.

Why not?
I don't either. Which is nice, because I can regard all children with the love they need and deserve, without having to put up with the noise and mess they make!

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Re: Where's the beef?

Post #20

Post by alexxcJRO »

2ndRateMind wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:56 pm
Divine Insight wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:38 pm
2ndRateMind wrote: So my question is: would you sacrifice meat eating to save the world for your children, and theirs?
I don't have any children.

Still, would be totally willing to become 100% vegan to save humanity in general.

Why not?
I don't either. Which is nice, because I can regard all children with the love they need and deserve, without having to put up with the noise and mess they make!

Best wishes, 2RM.
We need to seriously change out life style towards a more ECO way if we want to preserve our future as a specie. Have some consideration for future generations.
Limit our electric power consumption, natural gas consumption, automobile, planes usage.
We can all buy electronics which are more ECO, use less electricity. We can buy less. Be more responsible with electronics usage.
We need to be more responsible in respect to heating or cooling our home and take steps in reducing consumption.
Developed countries can reduce the food waste.
Not buy unnecessary cloths, cosmetics, electrical devices and so on.
Recycle better. Reduce usage of plastic.
Reduce the huge forest clearing and destroying of habitats.
Reduce commercial fishing.
Reduce massively the meat consumption, dairy consumption and consequently reduce the animal slaughter and be more healthy, more respectful to other animal species. We are just one of such species ourself. We would not like for example to be harvested by an alien civilization and be killed billions at a time.

I for example have reduced meat consumption. My circulatory system thanks me for that.
I have reduced electrical consumption by using very efficient devices. I use 4w led lights. I only have a PC with a single TV(which consumption I reduced in half by decreasing backlight) as a monitor, one efficient fridge, one efficient washing machine, one fan(I use on very few hot days), one beard trimmer(I use two times a month), one hairdryer which is rarely used and a gas oven. That’s it. No microwave oven, electric oven, dishwasher, no air conditioner, sandwich maker, toast maker and so other useless electrical nonsense. Haven’t changed my phone in 6 years. I have smart sockets. No energy vampires during night time or when not home.

I have bought less cloths. Bought quality over quantity.
I don’t use a car. I use electrical buses, bicycle, train for transportation.
Reduced humidity in my apartment so I can stay at a lower temperature(20-22) in the winter and managed to reduce gas consumption in half.
I lead a much simpler, minimalist life which is more healthy and environmental friendly.

Imagine if all those obese and/or materialistic obsessed losers from all the developed countries which pollute the most and use most resources would do as I am doing. Life would be more peachy. 8-)
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