A moral question about rape

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A moral question about rape

Post #1

Post by Athetotheist »

I'm not sure if this is quite the right subforum for this, but I'm taking a guess that it is.

Assault is a violent move against someone. Rape takes assault to another level because, in the case of rape, the assault continues even when the assailant is no longer present; the victim's body is still being invaded.

Question for moral debate:

Given that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene, is someone who denies emergency contraception to the victim of a rape acting as an accessory to that rape?

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Re: A moral question about rape

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Post by Athetotheist »

The Tanager wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:42 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]

Why do you see the child produced (if one is) as an assault?
What I see as part of the assault is the production----against the victim's will.

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #12

Post by The Tanager »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:33 pm
Why do you see the child produced (if one is) as an assault?
What I see as part of the assault is the production----against the victim's will.
I agree. I don't see how one who wants to deny emergency contraception to the victim is an accessory to that part of the assault, though. Forcibly impregnating someone against their will is a distinct thing then the child produced (which is what some people claim the emergency contraception is harming).

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #13

Post by Athetotheist »

The Tanager wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:02 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:33 pm
Why do you see the child produced (if one is) as an assault?
What I see as part of the assault is the production----against the victim's will.
I agree. I don't see how one who wants to deny emergency contraception to the victim is an accessory to that part of the assault, though. Forcibly impregnating someone against their will is a distinct thing then the child produced (which is what some people claim the emergency contraception is harming).
If that's what they're claiming, then they're mistaken. Some believe that abortion is murder, but abortion is the termination of a pregnancy; contraception is the prevention of pregnancy. When contraception----including emergency contraception----is successfully used, there's no pregnancy to terminate and, thus, no abortion.

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Re: A moral question about rape

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Post by The Tanager »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:45 pmIf that's what they're claiming, then they're mistaken. Some believe that abortion is murder, but abortion is the termination of a pregnancy; contraception is the prevention of pregnancy. When contraception----including emergency contraception----is successfully used, there's no pregnancy to terminate and, thus, no abortion.
But does that make them part of the original assault, guilty of a different assault through ignorance, or do you think their ignorant action is better described as something other than an assault?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #15

Post by Athetotheist »

The Tanager wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:49 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:45 pmIf that's what they're claiming, then they're mistaken. Some believe that abortion is murder, but abortion is the termination of a pregnancy; contraception is the prevention of pregnancy. When contraception----including emergency contraception----is successfully used, there's no pregnancy to terminate and, thus, no abortion.
But does that make them part of the original assault, guilty of a different assault through ignorance, or do you think their ignorant action is better described as something other than an assault?
I'm not talking about "ignorant action"; I'm talking about a knowing INaction. My question is: If someone denies emergency contraception to someone they know is the victim of a rape, which is an attack, are they----through inaction----allowing the attack to continue?

I'm trying to think of it from the perspective of the victim, whose body is still being manipulated by the attacker even when the attacker is no longer present. The victim's body is being turned against it's owner's will, forced into procreation by a violent perversion of the procreative act which the victim must live with from then on. The victim has been viciously used and robbed of everything positive in the maternal experience. Might not the victim feel like the denial of emergency contraception would merely hand the wretched attacker another victory? How would I feel in that position? How would you feel?

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #16

Post by The Tanager »

Athetotheist wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:30 pmI'm not talking about "ignorant action"; I'm talking about a knowing INaction. My question is: If someone denies emergency contraception to someone they know is the victim of a rape, which is an attack, are they----through inaction----allowing the attack to continue?
My guess is that those who want to deny the victim emergency contraception is that they either (1) are ignorant of the difference between "emergency contraception" and abortion, perhaps feeling like the former is a misnomer or (2) also think contraception is morally wrong. Thus it's not a knowing inaction. They aren't knowingly prolonging the initial assault for they see these as separate issues. I'm wondering if you think that should change what we think of them or their action.
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:30 pmI'm trying to think of it from the perspective of the victim, whose body is still being manipulated by the attacker even when the attacker is no longer present. The victim's body is being turned against it's owner's will, forced into procreation by a violent perversion of the procreative act which the victim must live with from then on. The victim has been viciously used and robbed of everything positive in the maternal experience. Might not the victim feel like the denial of emergency contraception would merely hand the wretched attacker another victory? How would I feel in that position? How would you feel?
While I'm not sure the victim has been robbed of everything positive about the maternal experience, I do agree with the rest of what you said.

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #17

Post by nobspeople »

Athetotheist wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:26 pm I'm not sure if this is quite the right subforum for this, but I'm taking a guess that it is.

Assault is a violent move against someone. Rape takes assault to another level because, in the case of rape, the assault continues even when the assailant is no longer present; the victim's body is still being invaded.

Question for moral debate:

Given that rape is a type of assault which continues even after the assailant leaves the scene, is someone who denies emergency contraception to the victim of a rape acting as an accessory to that rape?
Accessory seems to be a bit of a stretch to me, but I'm not an attorney. But for sure, they're not being helpful by denying emergency contraception to the victim.
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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #18

Post by Athetotheist »

The Tanager wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:17 amMy guess is that those who want to deny the victim emergency contraception is that they either (1) are ignorant of the difference between "emergency contraception" and abortion, perhaps feeling like the former is a misnomer or (2) also think contraception is morally wrong. Thus it's not a knowing inaction. They aren't knowingly prolonging the initial assault for they see these as separate issues. I'm wondering if you think that should change what we think of them or their action.
I would say that if they don't know the difference, they should definitely be informed of it. And I think the second position you cite would be considerably harder to defend morally.
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:30 pmI'm trying to think of it from the perspective of the victim, whose body is still being manipulated by the attacker even when the attacker is no longer present. The victim's body is being turned against it's owner's will, forced into procreation by a violent perversion of the procreative act which the victim must live with from then on. The victim has been viciously used and robbed of everything positive in the maternal experience. Might not the victim feel like the denial of emergency contraception would merely hand the wretched attacker another victory? How would I feel in that position? How would you feel?
While I'm not sure the victim has been robbed of everything positive about the maternal experience, I do agree with the rest of what you said.
While the victim would hopefully be able to regain a positive maternal experience, I think she might feel in the moment that she had lost it all.

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #19

Post by Purple Knight »

Miles wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:34 pmAs soon as the bomb detonates (the physical raping is over) the attack is no longer being carried out. It no longer exists. Obviously you have a very warped concept of the words "attack" and "assault." I suggest you look them up in a dictionary and pay careful attention to their definitions.
Actually I kind of agree with him. The assault does continue; it is still being carried out. It's just being carried out by a part of the body (lots of them, actually) that's now detached if that's a better way of thinking of it.

Now, if those aren't parts of the body, then Bender is not assaulting Fry in this scene. Bender does no wrong at all.



(Okay, I do get that Fry in his infinite infantitude actually asked Bender to do this, but for the sake of argument, pretend he hadn't.)

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Re: A moral question about rape

Post #20

Post by Purple Knight »

harculesjenetro wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:09 pm It's so disgusting that some men consider a woman only as an incubator for carrying babies and a body to meet the needs
I find the reality that leads people to believe this more disgusting than the belief. I hope for actual solutions to the problem. One day, hopefully, men and women won't be physically different with one clear winner and second place being the ability to produce babies. I hope this transgender sports issue brings to light the fact that there is actually a problem and society works to cure it instead of forcing people to pretend that it is already cured. Perhaps when we stop ignoring difficult or disgusting or unfair truths, we'll evolve and become a species where men and women have the same physical abilities, play in the same sports groups, and the only difference will be what we've got between our legs.

Being female is a disability. You know this intimately if you've known that little girl who wanted to be the first female to play in the NFL because every day, she was told that she had the same abilities and was told she was just as good as a boy and could do whatever she wanted. I have actually cried for her. And I want to cure the problem, not ignore it, because humanity has advanced far enough that nobody should have to suffer that.

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