The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

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The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

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Post by Amos Ministries »

[Replying to Miles in post #10]

The bible does not speak about coke but does speak about exploiting the immigrant.

As I already stated these people Amalakites Samaritan and Ephraim were all Outside Nations that were trying to destroy Israel.

We’re kind of going in circles here.

God is perfect if we don’t believe that then we are not Christian.

Slavery in the Bible is not the same thing as what we perceive As slavery. In the Bible a slave sold himself Into slavery. A man would give up his own freedom into slavery usually over debt and there was a limitation to the duration of slavery which was seven years or until the year of Jubilee. So slavery is not what we think which is what took place in the southern United States or in other countries. Slaves are not even allowed to be abused if you chipped a tooth a slave you had to set him free.The Bible says Cursed is the man who steals another man and sells them into slavery. Meaning you could not forcefully enslave somebody and sell them which is what took place in the United States in the south this is not biblical but unfortunately this is our only experience or perception of slavery in the modern day but it is not the way slavery was conducted in ancient Israel.

So there is much fear that is not understood about the Scriptures and until it’s fully understood we cannot make judgements about God and claim that he is not righteous.

I mean I could send you the Scriptures if you really would like but I would rather not since it takes time to do so but if you really would like it I could.

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

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Post by Purple Knight »

Miles wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:38 pm"O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us!
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock! (Psalm 137:8-9)

"Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)
You have to read this in the light that Babylonians and Samaritans were oppressors. Yes, it was good to do these things.

Not only was it not racist to dash these babies against rocks, it was decidedly anti-racist.

And beautiful.

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

Post #13

Post by Miles »

Amos Ministries wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:02 pm [Replying to Miles in post #10]

The bible does not speak about coke but does speak about exploiting the immigrant.

As I already stated these people Amalakites Samaritan and Ephraim were all Outside Nations that were trying to destroy Israel.
So what"? It still doesn't mean god didn't condoned the destruction of people in the old testament, because he did, and in exactly those instances I cited. The reason he did so is irrelevant.
God is perfect if we don’t believe that then we are not Christian.
And you get to define who is and is not a Christian because . . . . . . . . you can? Well, in as much as I don't regard you as any better than myself, I too get to define a Christian, and my definition of a Christian is "Anyone who says they are." O:)
Slavery in the Bible is not the same thing as what we perceive As slavery. In the Bible a slave sold himself Into slavery. A man would give up his own freedom into slavery usually over debt and there was a limitation to the duration of slavery which was seven years or until the year of Jubilee. So slavery is not what we think which is what took place in the southern United States or in other countries. Slaves are not even allowed to be abused if you chipped a tooth a slave you had to set him free.The Bible says Cursed is the man who steals another man and sells them into slavery. Meaning you could not forcefully enslave somebody and sell them which is what took place in the United States in the south this is not biblical but unfortunately this is our only experience or perception of slavery in the modern day but it is not the way slavery was conducted in ancient Israel.
Not saying your at all Bible-illeterate, but it would help if you read some of the verses pertaining to slavery. None of which mention indentured servitude, the concept your talking about above. Simply consider:


Who may be a slave and your son's slave
Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.


Being submissive to one's owner
Titus 2:9-10
Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior.


How should slaves obey their owners
Ephesians 6:5-8
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, . . . .


Mistreating slaves
Exodus 21:20-21
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.


Hebrew slaves get lucky, but no so much for their given wives and subsequent children
2 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, then that slave will serve for only six years. After six years, he will be free, and he will have to pay nothing. 3 If he is not married when he becomes your slave, when he becomes free, he will leave without a wife. But if the man is married when he becomes your slave, then he will keep his wife at the time he is made free. 4 If the slave is not married, the master can give him a wife. If that wife gives birth to sons or daughters, she and her children will belong to the master. After the slave is finished with his years of service, he will be made free.


How about one's daughter? Can she be sold into slavery? Of course she can
Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.


And does the NT continue to endorse slavery? BINGO!

Ephesians 6:5-9
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart . . . .

Colossians 4:1
Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.

Matthew 10:24
“A disciple is not above the teacher, nor is a slave above his master.


Even Jesus accepted slavery
Luke 7:2-10
2 Now a [Roman] [a]centurion’s slave, who was highly regarded by him, was sick and on the verge of death. 3 When the centurion heard about Jesus, he sent some Jewish elders to Him, asking Him to come and save the life of his slave. 4 When they reached Jesus, they pleaded with Him earnestly [to come], saying, “He is worthy for You to do this for him, 5 because he loves our nation and he built us our synagogue [at his own expense].” 6 And Jesus went with them. But when He was near the house, the centurion sent friends to Him, saying, “Lord, do not trouble Yourself further, for I am not worthy for You to come under my roof. 7 Therefore I did not even consider myself worthy to come to You. But just speak a word, and my slave will be healed. 8 For I also am a man subject to authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 9 Now when Jesus heard this, He was amazed at him, and turned and said to the crowd that was following Him, “I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such great faith [as this man’s].” 10 When the messengers who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave in good health.


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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

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Post by Amos Ministries »

Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Leviticus 25 also says:


47 “‘If a foreigner residing among you becomes rich and any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to the foreigner or to a member of the foreigner’s clan, 48 they retain the right of redemption after they have sold themselves. One of their relatives may redeem them:
This scripture here is for the slave who wishes not to leave

My point here is that it was not that the Hebrews could just go and buy any alien resident in their land but rather the foreign resident had the choice to sell their freedom.

The slaves become permanent slaves based on their choice:

Deuteronomy 15:16 But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, 17 then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your female servant.

18 Do not consider it a hardship to set your servant free, because their service to you these six years has been worth twice as much as that of a hired hand. And the Lord your God will bless you in everything you do.


None of the slaves were forced into slavery but rather they sold their freedom due to debt. In those days they had debtors prison and this was a better alternative than debtors prison At least the slave received the sum of money upfront rather than going into debtors prison only to have nobody pay your debt Causing you to languish in prison.

Exodus 21:16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death,(O) whether the victim has been sold(P) or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

As we can see in Exodus 21 forcefully enslaving or kidnapping a person and selling them was against God’s law.

Leviticus 25 also says:
Leviticus 25:35 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you. 36 Do not take interest or any profit from them, but fear your God, so that they may continue to live among you. 37 You must not lend them money at interest or sell them food at a profit. 38 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.

Here God is saying to treat the Hebrew the same as you would the foreigner.

39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. 40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.

The scripture you reference in Exodus 21 is not much different for people who are not slaves:

Exodus 21:18 “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.

Exodus 21:26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

Abuse is not tolerated.The point of what I’m saying is an immigrant or an alien in your land that has not sold themselves into slavery in ancient Israel was given the same rights as a citizen of Israel the same justice equality but in these cases that you’ve pointed out these immigrants were aliens or residence or foreigners who had sold themselves into slavery They were not forcefully enslaved Or sold, when it says that you may buy slaves who are foreigners it means you may buy someone that of their own free will sold their freedom to you, due to a debt.

You are mixing up the rights of slaves who were foreigners, with the rights of free men who were foreigners Immigrants aliens.

So what I’m saying is the New Testament does allow slavery but under these conditions, meaning the person must by their own free will choose to sell their freedom Not forceful enslavement.

As per your other comment regarding the true Christian I am stating that if you do not believe in God’s sovereignty and correctness then how can you be a follower of Christ, the scriptures states that the first place the disciples were called Christians were in Antioch and to be a true disciple of Jesus means that you would follow in Jesus’s footsteps which is to see God with great reverence and to understand God‘s sovereignty.


Regarding God’s destruction of people who wished and planned to attack and see the destruction of the nation of Israel he does the same thing today when people attack his plan of salvation and do not believe in his son Jesus, they cannot enter into his kingdom and Are sent to eternal damnation.

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

Post #15

Post by Miles »

Amos Ministries wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:51 am Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Leviticus 25 also says:


47 “‘If a foreigner residing among you becomes rich and any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to the foreigner or to a member of the foreigner’s clan, 48 they retain the right of redemption after they have sold themselves. One of their relatives may redeem them:
This scripture here is for the slave who wishes not to leave

My point here is that it was not that the Hebrews could just go and buy any alien resident in their land but rather the foreign resident had the choice to sell their freedom.

The slaves become permanent slaves based on their choice:

Deuteronomy 15:16 But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, 17 then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your female servant.

18 Do not consider it a hardship to set your servant free, because their service to you these six years has been worth twice as much as that of a hired hand. And the Lord your God will bless you in everything you do.


None of the slaves were forced into slavery but rather they sold their freedom due to debt. In those days they had debtors prison and this was a better alternative than debtors prison At least the slave received the sum of money upfront rather than going into debtors prison only to have nobody pay your debt Causing you to languish in prison.

Exodus 21:16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death,(O) whether the victim has been sold(P) or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

As we can see in Exodus 21 forcefully enslaving or kidnapping a person and selling them was against God’s law.

Leviticus 25 also says:
Leviticus 25:35 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you. 36 Do not take interest or any profit from them, but fear your God, so that they may continue to live among you. 37 You must not lend them money at interest or sell them food at a profit. 38 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.

Here God is saying to treat the Hebrew the same as you would the foreigner.

39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. 40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.

The scripture you reference in Exodus 21 is not much different for people who are not slaves:

Exodus 21:18 “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.

Exodus 21:26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

Abuse is not tolerated.The point of what I’m saying is an immigrant or an alien in your land that has not sold themselves into slavery in ancient Israel was given the same rights as a citizen of Israel the same justice equality but in these cases that you’ve pointed out these immigrants were aliens or residence or foreigners who had sold themselves into slavery They were not forcefully enslaved Or sold, when it says that you may buy slaves who are foreigners it means you may buy someone that of their own free will sold their freedom to you, due to a debt.

You are mixing up the rights of slaves who were foreigners, with the rights of free men who were foreigners Immigrants aliens.

So what I’m saying is the New Testament does allow slavery but under these conditions, meaning the person must by their own free will choose to sell their freedom Not forceful enslavement.

As per your other comment regarding the true Christian I am stating that if you do not believe in God’s sovereignty and correctness then how can you be a follower of Christ, the scriptures states that the first place the disciples were called Christians were in Antioch and to be a true disciple of Jesus means that you would follow in Jesus’s footsteps which is to see God with great reverence and to understand God‘s sovereignty.


Regarding God’s destruction of people who wished and planned to attack and see the destruction of the nation of Israel he does the same thing today when people attack his plan of salvation and do not believe in his son Jesus, they cannot enter into his kingdom and Are sent to eternal damnation.

*SIGH*
Have a good day.

.

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

Post #16

Post by Amos Ministries »

[Replying to Miles in post #10]

I refer you back to post 5 where several times I point out where god condoned the destruction of a people:

"Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

and

"Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

plus

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land; and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon.
So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land." (Numbers 21:34-35)
Yes but what I’m saying is God only destroyed those who were trying to attack Israel - not the immigrants living in the land of Israel. There is a difference. It’s like your country going to war with another country or you attack the immigrants of that country living in your country.
Amos Ministries wrote:
I also think that our actions cannot be based on judging God. Meaning when he kills there’s nothing wrong with it we cannot judge God For the Lord giveth and taketh away and he wounds And he heals
Why not? Just because he's god doesn't make him infallible. After all, he has made his mistakes.

Amos Ministries wrote:
But if we had to kill this is wrong and against God’s Commandments just like the Scriptures state vengeance is mine saith the Lord it if we commit vengeance against somebody this is wrong as per Gods word.

As apposed to rightful way a whole country commits vengeance, as in the World Wars, no doubt.
No, the New Testament does not agree with any words of any kind. As Jesus stated we are to turn the other cheek he even considers self-defence a form of violence.
Which is why we approve of slavery; god condones it so it must be good.

God does not approve of slavery. Slavery in the Bible was not what we see or think of today. Slavery in the Bible was a choice. A person chose to sell their freedom to another man for a certain amount of time, usually due to a debt that he owed. The only other alternative in that time was to go to Debtor's prison and languish there until somebody paid your debt; which was unlikely. And so people chose as a better alternative, to sell their freedom for a period of time and pay their debt. Obviously, this is not the kind of slavery we are accustomed to.

The scriptures state cursed be the man who kidnaps and sells a man as a slave. The slavery you are imagining is the wrongful slavery that took place in the United States this is not the same slavery that took place in Israel.

The bottom line of what I’m saying is God never condoned abuse or exploitation of the immigrant living in your land. 'In your land' being the operative words.

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

Post #17

Post by The Barbarian »

To be sure, there are no biological human races; there haven't been any for a very long time, certainly not by Biblical times. There is more genetic variation within any "race" you could specify, than there is between "races." Nevertheless, race exists as a social construct and racism is a real thing.

The point of the parable of the Good Samaritan was a point Jesus reinforced again and again. All humans are our neighbors and must be treated with kindness and compassion.

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

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Post by Amos Ministries »

I agree

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

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Post by The Tanager »

[Replying to Amos Ministries in post #19]

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Re: The Bible Does Not Condone Racism

Post #20

Post by Mrs.Badham »

Psalm 105
44. And he gave them the lands of the heathen: and they inherited the labour of the people.

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