Carnivores can Love... So Eating Meat...?

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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Purple Knight
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Carnivores can Love... So Eating Meat...?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

It seems to me that of all the animals one might keep as pets, carnivores stand out in their ability to form strong bonds with people.







I'm not saying they make good pets or that they can't kill you - I'm saying they pass test #1 with flying colours: They can love you back, clearly, and provide rewarding companionship. (They probably fail most if not all of the other tests. That's not what I'm pointing out though.)

I'm proving wild examples because this ability to love is not something we've bred into these animals. Clearly my cat loves me because it's a cat and it innately has that ability. This is particularly surprising since every cat other than a lion is solitary, yet when socialised, they seem to want and even need companionship.

Question for Debate: What does this mean, if anything, for the ethical question of whether it's right or wrong to eat meat? (The two are not related is a viable answer.)

I only draw a possible connection due to the repeated theme: Hate, bad; love, good. If we're supposed to love, and encourage love, and that ability has some connection with eating meat, it might mean that eating meat is permissible. Does it mean that eating meat is permissible if the ability to love somehow developed because of a predatory lifestyle? There are exceptions, such as parrots and gorillas, but the general pattern is meat = love. What I suppose I'm asking is, even if I'm right, and the ability to love was somehow evolutioned into being with the direct cause of eating meat, is it still possible that we have the moral obligation to discard the behaviour anyway?

Should we even look to what Nature intends when asking about whether a particular act is moral or immoral, or should we look away from Nature deliberately? If so, where does our gaze rightly fall, and what ought we look to?

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Re: Carnivores can Love... So Eating Meat...?

Post #2

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:37 pm It seems to me that of all the animals one might keep as pets, carnivores stand out in their ability to form strong bonds with people.







I'm not saying they make good pets or that they can't kill you - I'm saying they pass test #1 with flying colours: They can love you back, clearly, and provide rewarding companionship. (They probably fail most if not all of the other tests. That's not what I'm pointing out though.)

I'm proving wild examples because this ability to love is not something we've bred into these animals. Clearly my cat loves me because it's a cat and it innately has that ability. This is particularly surprising since every cat other than a lion is solitary, yet when socialised, they seem to want and even need companionship.

Question for Debate: What does this mean, if anything, for the ethical question of whether it's right or wrong to eat meat? (The two are not related is a viable answer.)

I only draw a possible connection due to the repeated theme: Hate, bad; love, good. If we're supposed to love, and encourage love, and that ability has some connection with eating meat, it might mean that eating meat is permissible. Does it mean that eating meat is permissible if the ability to love somehow developed because of a predatory lifestyle? There are exceptions, such as parrots and gorillas, but the general pattern is meat = love. What I suppose I'm asking is, even if I'm right, and the ability to love was somehow evolutioned into being with the direct cause of eating meat, is it still possible that we have the moral obligation to discard the behaviour anyway?

Should we even look to what Nature intends when asking about whether a particular act is moral or immoral, or should we look away from Nature deliberately? If so, where does our gaze rightly fall, and what ought we look to?
If we were to look at nature for morality, we'd first have to absolutely define morality and agree with that definition universally. I don't think that's possible, as morality seems to vary from person to person, age to age, location to location and any combination therein.
Morality seems to be more of a human construct than a natural one.

I will say, nature seems a lot more....consistent?....when it comes to things like right and wrong than any person.

That said, when looking at the dogs I've had (and still have) I can see much more intelligence they we give them credit for (many other animals that aren't pets as well) and more of a sense of being in touch with reality than any person I've experienced, be it by nature or because people (consciously or not) block that ability.
I've never seen ANY person as happy to be alive every single day, and happy to see us when we get home, as my dog. No one. To me, that's important and very telling of (one of the many) differences between people and nature.

Because of all of this, my consumption of meat has vastly been reduced recently.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Carnivores can Love... So Eating Meat...?

Post #3

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:43 amBecause of all of this, my consumption of meat has vastly been reduced recently.
Your dog wouldn't tell you, if he could, that eating meat was wrong. He'd tell you that eating meat is the bees' knees.

The first time I started thinking about this was during my volunteer work with big cats. I was a vegetarian at the time. And I'm sitting there feeding about ten pounds of raw meat into an animal that's loving and kind to me by its nature, not because anyone bred it to be that way.

Would it be right to stop? To just kill this animal or let it starve because flesh is all it can consume?

By the point I'm starting to weaken on the vegetarian diet. My IQ was probably so low I could have only barely made it into Mensa. I have drastically lessened ability to concentrate. I'm physically weak too. Usually sick. My body is telling me I'm starving.

And I'm sitting there being forced to make the valuation that if animal life is valuable, then eating meat is permissible, because a black leopard is presently rubbing on me, trying to comfort me, because the darn cat can tell that I'm sick. This particular cat wouldn't let anyone else in his cage, but I could walk in with no problem. And I have to say, if eating meat is not permissible, I ought to twist this fellow's neck to save the next cow that's going to be killed to he can eat.

So I say to myself, no, this fellow is valuable. He's at odds with the cow in such a way that one of them really does have to die. So I ask myself, why would I pick the cow? Because the cow is a stranger? Because the animal in front of me is dear to me and I'm a masochist? That's the only reason I can think of that I would pick the cow.

So I don't pick the cow. I pick the cat.

So eating meat must be permissible.

This was one of the things I started thinking about and within a few months I wasn't a vegetarian anymore.

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Re: Carnivores can Love... So Eating Meat...?

Post #4

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #3]
Your dog wouldn't tell you, if he could, that eating meat was wrong.
Of course not. Which is why I don't rely on my dog for my own decisions of right and wrong. :)
Well, not all of them anyway. She's a pretty good indicator or bad energy
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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