If God doesn't exist!

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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mms20102
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If God doesn't exist!

Post #1

Post by mms20102 »

If we assume the non-existence of God, why should there be any morals at all ?.
Since morals in any belief system defines what's right and wrong, and people of any belief system follow the morals according to their books, what if God doesn't exist?. Why should we be moral after his non-existence?

I'm not here to discuss what is right and wrong according to anyone, so please avoid making hypotheses about what morals could mean.
We will agree in this debate that morals are habits acquired through a belief system. After we finish discussing the Question of this debate, we will discuss morals in more detail.

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Tcg
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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #21

Post by Tcg »

mms20102 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:41 am [Replying to Tcg in post #16]
Atheism is not a lack of belief in the supernatural, but rather a lack of belief in god/gods. Buddhism still qualifies in spite of your continued attempt to remove it from consideration.

Morals can be abandoned at any time for any reason under any system.


Tcg
How come atheists believe in super-natural ? not even one athiest leader wrote that in his books in fact its counter to the rational view of sensible science which atheism built its temple upon.
As I have already explained, atheism in one thing, lack of belief in god/gods. Anything else an atheist accepts or rejects is irrelevant to atheism.

An atheist temple? No such edifice exists.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

mms20102
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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #22

Post by mms20102 »

Tcg wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:12 am
mms20102 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:41 am [Replying to Tcg in post #16]
Atheism is not a lack of belief in the supernatural, but rather a lack of belief in god/gods. Buddhism still qualifies in spite of your continued attempt to remove it from consideration.

Morals can be abandoned at any time for any reason under any system.


Tcg
How come atheists believe in super-natural ? not even one athiest leader wrote that in his books in fact its counter to the rational view of sensible science which atheism built its temple upon.
As I have already explained, atheism in one thing, lack of belief in god/gods. Anything else an atheist accepts or rejects is irrelevant to atheism.

An atheist temple? No such edifice exists.


Tcg
Why we need to use sophistry instead of analyzing clear evidences ?. Look at the times article and tell me why someone like Richard Dawkins said
he feared that if religion were abolished it would “give people a licence to do really bad things”. He said that security camera surveillance of customers in shops did appear to deter shoplifting, adding that people might feel free to do wrong without a “divine spy camera in the sky reading their every thought”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/endi ... -sqqdbmcpq
In other words morals are related to observing god and absence of god will make people less moral = (without god there will be no morals). End of the story.

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #23

Post by Purple Knight »

mms20102 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:30 am If we assume the non-existence of God, why should there be any morals at all ?.
Since morals in any belief system defines what's right and wrong, and people of any belief system follow the morals according to their books, what if God doesn't exist?. Why should we be moral after his non-existence?

I'm not here to discuss what is right and wrong according to anyone, so please avoid making hypotheses about what morals could mean.
We will agree in this debate that morals are habits acquired through a belief system. After we finish discussing the Question of this debate, we will discuss morals in more detail.
My belief system about morals is that I believe I don't want to live in a world where murder is legal, so I oppose legalised murder. I also don't want a world where people murder if they can get away with it, so I universalise and don't do that either.

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #24

Post by Tcg »

mms20102 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:03 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:12 am
mms20102 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:41 am [Replying to Tcg in post #16]
Atheism is not a lack of belief in the supernatural, but rather a lack of belief in god/gods. Buddhism still qualifies in spite of your continued attempt to remove it from consideration.

Morals can be abandoned at any time for any reason under any system.


Tcg
How come atheists believe in super-natural ? not even one athiest leader wrote that in his books in fact its counter to the rational view of sensible science which atheism built its temple upon.
As I have already explained, atheism in one thing, lack of belief in god/gods. Anything else an atheist accepts or rejects is irrelevant to atheism.

An atheist temple? No such edifice exists.


Tcg
Why we need to use sophistry instead of analyzing clear evidences ?. Look at the times article and tell me why someone like Richard Dawkins said
he feared that if religion were abolished it would “give people a licence to do really bad things”. He said that security camera surveillance of customers in shops did appear to deter shoplifting, adding that people might feel free to do wrong without a “divine spy camera in the sky reading their every thought”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/endi ... -sqqdbmcpq
In other words morals are related to observing god and absence of god will make people less moral = (without god there will be no morals). End of the story.
Richard Dawkins is but one atheist. He does not represent atheism nor does he speak for all atheists. He speaks only for himself and when he does so he is expressing his opinion only. Researching this article, however, most fortuitously led me to this:
Arbitrary Quotes, Arbitrary Morality: Christians Misread Dawkins

Humanism provides a reasoned, ethical standard that doesn’t rely on the existence of an omnipresent deity. Humanism and Its Aspirations, the third and most recent iteration of the guiding document of the American Humanist Association, and organized humanism in general, represents the efforts of decades of secular ethicists working to develop a reasoned moral code. The AHA Center for Education has expanded on this work by developing the Ten Commitments, a representation of our shared values and principles that promote a democratic world in which every individual’s worth and dignity is respected, nurtured, and supported, and where human freedom and ethical responsibility are natural aspirations for everyone.

As Dawkins notes, some people will rely on threats of a deity or promises of an afterlife to guide their actions, but reasonable people don’t depend on that without proof. Humanists know it is our collective responsibility to behave ethically and improve the world together. We know how to be good without a God.

<bolding mine>

https://thehumanist.com/news/secularism ... d-dawkins/
Additionally, in spite of your false accusation of sophistry, atheism remains one thing, the lack of belief in god/gods.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #25

Post by mms20102 »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:32 pm
mms20102 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:30 am If we assume the non-existence of God, why should there be any morals at all ?.
Since morals in any belief system defines what's right and wrong, and people of any belief system follow the morals according to their books, what if God doesn't exist?. Why should we be moral after his non-existence?

I'm not here to discuss what is right and wrong according to anyone, so please avoid making hypotheses about what morals could mean.
We will agree in this debate that morals are habits acquired through a belief system. After we finish discussing the Question of this debate, we will discuss morals in more detail.
My belief system about morals is that I believe I don't want to live in a world where murder is legal, so I oppose legalised murder. I also don't want a world where people murder if they can get away with it, so I universalise and don't do that either.
And I agree with you. And want to add that those ideas were mainly forced by God so people will never get away with any wrong deed unjudged.

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #26

Post by Tcg »

mms20102 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:45 am
And I agree with you. And want to add that those ideas were mainly forced by God so people will never get away with any wrong deed unjudged.
That's an interesting addition. Now all you have to do is provide verifiable evidence that there is any truth to your addition.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #27

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to Tcg in post #25]

So you are saying that every athiest represent himself and every athiest has his own set of ideas?!.
If so I need to debate every athiest in this world to prove something.
If you think Richard Dawkins doesn't represent Atheists then why do you think the article does ?. Simply because you don't like the words of the first article.....
I have many Quotes to present here is some
Hamza Tzortzis was debating lawrence m krauss and asked him is incest morally wrong ?. Krauss replied if they are going to have children its wrong but if they use protection its not wrong.
Another athiest said " I will choose a faithful wife and servant " because If they are not having religion my wife could cheat on me and my servant might steal my money.
With your explanation Mafia leader can do whatever and then die unjudged and no one can do anything about it and its over, do you think this is fair?.

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #28

Post by mms20102 »

Tcg wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:03 am
mms20102 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:45 am
And I agree with you. And want to add that those ideas were mainly forced by God so people will never get away with any wrong deed unjudged.
That's an interesting addition. Now all you have to do is provide verifiable evidence that there is any truth to your addition.


Tcg
Inner Evidence
Quran 2:281
And be mindful of a day when you are returned to Allah, then the earnings of every single self are rendered in full to it, for they are not done injustice.

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #29

Post by Tcg »

mms20102 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:10 am [Replying to Tcg in post #25]

So you are saying that every athiest represent himself and every athiest has his own set of ideas?!.
I could not have made this point more clearly.
If so I need to debate every athiest in this world to prove something.
Where did I state this?
If you think Richard Dawkins doesn't represent Atheists then why do you think the article does ?. Simply because you don't like the words of the first article.....
As I explained quite clearly, Dr. Dawkins is but one atheist with his own opinions.

I have many Quotes to present here is some
Hamza Tzortzis was debating lawrence m krauss and asked him is incest morally wrong ?. Krauss replied if they are going to have children its wrong but if they use protection its not wrong.
Okay. One dude's opinion assuming this is an honest representation of one dude's opinion.
Another athiest said " I will choose a faithful wife and servant " because If they are not having religion my wife could cheat on me and my servant might steal my money.
As if theists never steal money or cheat on their spouse. Seriously? And your documentation is nothing more than, "Another atheist said." Is that the pinnacle of evidence you can provide?
With your explanation Mafia leader can do whatever and then die unjudged and no one can do anything about it and its over, do you think this is fair?.
I've not expressed any opinion about a Mafia leader.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: If God doesn't exist!

Post #30

Post by Tcg »

mms20102 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:25 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:03 am
mms20102 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:45 am
And I agree with you. And want to add that those ideas were mainly forced by God so people will never get away with any wrong deed unjudged.
That's an interesting addition. Now all you have to do is provide verifiable evidence that there is any truth to your addition.


Tcg
Inner Evidence
Quran 2:281
And be mindful of a day when you are returned to Allah, then the earnings of every single self are rendered in full to it, for they are not done injustice.
This is not evidence. This is but a claim based on religious propaganda.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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