Death penalty

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nobspeople
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Death penalty

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Not sure where's the best place for this - MODs feel free to move to another location as you see fit.

For discussion:
The Death Penalty.

Is it just or unjust?
Is it right to take a life for various means? Are some beyond redemption? Are some so evil they don't deserve to live on the planet with the rest of humanity?
What should or should qualify for the death penalty?
What means should the death penalty take for those who are 'pro-death penalty'?
What should qualify as for the death penalty?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Eddie Ramos
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Re: Death penalty

Post #2

Post by Eddie Ramos »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:27 pm Not sure where's the best place for this - MODs feel free to move to another location as you see fit.

For discussion:
The Death Penalty.

Is it just or unjust?
Is it right to take a life for various means? Are some beyond redemption? Are some so evil they don't deserve to live on the planet with the rest of humanity?
What should or should qualify for the death penalty?
What means should the death penalty take for those who are 'pro-death penalty'?
What should qualify as for the death penalty?
The death penalty originates from the scriptures. So, a just judge like God is the one who established it.

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900)
For the wages (payment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This same warning was given to Adam and he died for disobeying God's commandment.

Genesis 2:17 (KJV 1900)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

However, our judicial system is nothing like God's. By our standards, our system is much more lenient than God's. Our punishments are meted by the degree of the offence and this also comes from the scriptures.

Luke 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The death penalty, particularly in our system, is executed upon people who have taken life themselves. And this also comes from the scriptures.

Genesis 9:6 (KJV 1900)
Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Each judicial system around the world differs in the execution of the death penalty. But the principle is the same, life for life. But like I mentioned earlier, God's judicial system sets the bar far higher in that any sin is paid by death. And this is the central focus of the gospel.

PolytheistWitch
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Re: Death penalty

Post #3

Post by PolytheistWitch »

As far as I'm concerned the death penalty is a violation of law. If murder is illegal it should be illegal for the state. Outside of defending yourself which is what officers are allowed to do while they are under threat from a weapon. Now if an inmate gets out of line and begins a fight with a guard with a weapon then they can use deadly force. Kill someone who's violated the law who isn't actively engaged in hurting anyone to me is a violation of the law. Compound that with the doubt of guilt that might exist it's very hard for me to support the death penalty. It's costly, it's a constant burden on the criminal justice system and the courts. Once a person is securely behind bars and in a prison there's no reason to continue to try to punish them for a crime they've committed even if that crime is serious. My religion doesn't actually have any sort of restrictions on the death penalty that I'm aware of.

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Miles
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Re: Death penalty

Post #4

Post by Miles »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:22 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:27 pm Not sure where's the best place for this - MODs feel free to move to another location as you see fit.

For discussion:
The Death Penalty.

Is it just or unjust?
Is it right to take a life for various means? Are some beyond redemption? Are some so evil they don't deserve to live on the planet with the rest of humanity?
What should or should qualify for the death penalty?
What means should the death penalty take for those who are 'pro-death penalty'?
What should qualify as for the death penalty?
The death penalty originates from the scriptures. So, a just judge like God is the one who established it.
You don't think that before the scriptures came out people weren't being killed for violating this, that, or the other thing? Well, they were.

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900)
For the wages (payment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This same warning was given to Adam and he died for disobeying God's commandment.
Ah ha, religion raises its ugly head. Perhaps we'll get to see more.

Genesis 2:17 (KJV 1900)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

However, our judicial system is nothing like God's. By our standards, our system is much more lenient than God's. Our punishments are meted by the degree of the offence and this also comes from the scriptures.
And by golly we do. More platitudes

Luke 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
And a little story to break the boredom.

The death penalty, particularly in our system, is executed upon people who have taken life themselves. And this also comes from the scriptures.
Obviously, for you history doesn't begin until the scriptures were concocted. As if everyone sat on their hands not doing a thing until the Old Testament came out in print. Here's an FYI, executions for murder were commonplace in pre-scriptural times.

"Execution of criminals and dissidents has been used by nearly all societies since the beginning of civilizations on Earth."
source Wikipedia

Genesis 9:6 (KJV 1900)
Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Each judicial system around the world differs in the execution of the death penalty. But the principle is the same, life for life. But like I mentioned earlier, God's judicial system sets the bar far higher in that any sin is paid by death. And this is the central focus of the gospel.
Yeah, kill those parent cursers. and those who simply rebel against them. AND let's not forget those male homosexuals who play with each other; although, you frolicking lesbians can go home if you say five Hail Marys and drop a few quid in the box. (Probably the only time in the Bible where women are given a fairer shake then the men.)


.

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Eddie Ramos
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Re: Death penalty

Post #5

Post by Eddie Ramos »

Miles wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:38 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:22 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:27 pm Not sure where's the best place for this - MODs feel free to move to another location as you see fit.

For discussion:
The Death Penalty.

Is it just or unjust?
Is it right to take a life for various means? Are some beyond redemption? Are some so evil they don't deserve to live on the planet with the rest of humanity?
What should or should qualify for the death penalty?
What means should the death penalty take for those who are 'pro-death penalty'?
What should qualify as for the death penalty?
The death penalty originates from the scriptures. So, a just judge like God is the one who established it.
You don't think that before the scriptures came out people weren't being killed for violating this, that, or the other thing? Well, they were.

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900)
For the wages (payment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This same warning was given to Adam and he died for disobeying God's commandment.
Ah ha, religion raises its ugly head. Perhaps we'll get to see more.

Genesis 2:17 (KJV 1900)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

However, our judicial system is nothing like God's. By our standards, our system is much more lenient than God's. Our punishments are meted by the degree of the offence and this also comes from the scriptures.
And by golly we do. More platitudes

Luke 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
And a little story to break the boredom.

The death penalty, particularly in our system, is executed upon people who have taken life themselves. And this also comes from the scriptures.
Obviously, for you history doesn't begin until the scriptures were concocted. As if everyone sat on their hands not doing a thing until the Old Testament came out in print. Here's an FYI, executions for murder were commonplace in pre-scriptural times.

"Execution of criminals and dissidents has been used by nearly all societies since the beginning of civilizations on Earth."
source Wikipedia

Genesis 9:6 (KJV 1900)
Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Each judicial system around the world differs in the execution of the death penalty. But the principle is the same, life for life. But like I mentioned earlier, God's judicial system sets the bar far higher in that any sin is paid by death. And this is the central focus of the gospel.
Yeah, kill those parent cursers. and those who simply rebel against them. AND let's not forget those male homosexuals who play with each other; although, you frolicking lesbians can go home if you say five Hail Marys and drop a few quid in the box. (Probably the only time in the Bible where women are given a fairer shake then the men.)


.
I suppose you and I have our own source for truth. Mine is the Bible and yours seems to be Wikipedia. And since my source teaches me that the death penalty originated with the only 2 people ever to exist on this earth (Adam and Eve), then I don't have a problem saying that there was no history before them. The Bible is as much a history book as it is a spiritual book. This is why even secular archeologists use it to verify their findings. But where ever our sources for truth come from, it will ultimately determine what we believe and proclaim. I'm just grateful that I can say that my source for truth comes from the Bible alone, which is why I replied to the OP the way I did.

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Re: Death penalty

Post #6

Post by Miles »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:02 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:38 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:22 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:27 pm Not sure where's the best place for this - MODs feel free to move to another location as you see fit.

For discussion:
The Death Penalty.

Is it just or unjust?
Is it right to take a life for various means? Are some beyond redemption? Are some so evil they don't deserve to live on the planet with the rest of humanity?
What should or should qualify for the death penalty?
What means should the death penalty take for those who are 'pro-death penalty'?
What should qualify as for the death penalty?
The death penalty originates from the scriptures. So, a just judge like God is the one who established it.
You don't think that before the scriptures came out people weren't being killed for violating this, that, or the other thing? Well, they were.

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900)
For the wages (payment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This same warning was given to Adam and he died for disobeying God's commandment.
Ah ha, religion raises its ugly head. Perhaps we'll get to see more.

Genesis 2:17 (KJV 1900)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

However, our judicial system is nothing like God's. By our standards, our system is much more lenient than God's. Our punishments are meted by the degree of the offence and this also comes from the scriptures.
And by golly we do. More platitudes

Luke 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
And a little story to break the boredom.

The death penalty, particularly in our system, is executed upon people who have taken life themselves. And this also comes from the scriptures.
Obviously, for you history doesn't begin until the scriptures were concocted. As if everyone sat on their hands not doing a thing until the Old Testament came out in print. Here's an FYI, executions for murder were commonplace in pre-scriptural times.

"Execution of criminals and dissidents has been used by nearly all societies since the beginning of civilizations on Earth."
source Wikipedia

Genesis 9:6 (KJV 1900)
Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Each judicial system around the world differs in the execution of the death penalty. But the principle is the same, life for life. But like I mentioned earlier, God's judicial system sets the bar far higher in that any sin is paid by death. And this is the central focus of the gospel.
Yeah, kill those parent cursers. and those who simply rebel against them. AND let's not forget those male homosexuals who play with each other; although, you frolicking lesbians can go home if you say five Hail Marys and drop a few quid in the box. (Probably the only time in the Bible where women are given a fairer shake then the men.)


.
I suppose you and I have our own source for truth. Mine is the Bible and yours seems to be Wikipedia.
I've certainly found its truths more reliable, and to be based on actual fact rather than mere say-so.

And since my source teaches me that the death penalty originated with the only 2 people ever to exist on this earth (Adam and Eve), then I don't have a problem saying that there was no history before them. The Bible is as much a history book as it is a spiritual book.
So what kind of history is it that has god making "light" on the first day (Genesis 1:3), but then making the Sun and stars later (Genesis 1:16). What kind of history is it that has eight people build a boat to hold 8.7 million species of plants and animals, and feeds and takes care of them all during a flood that lasts at least 190 days, (6+ months)? It's fantasy writ large.
This is why even secular archeologists use it to verify their findings.
Name two who are religiously unbiased.

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Re: Death penalty

Post #7

Post by oldbadger »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:22 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:27 pm Not sure where's the best place for this - MODs feel free to move to another location as you see fit.

For discussion:
The Death Penalty.

Is it just or unjust?
Is it right to take a life for various means? Are some beyond redemption? Are some so evil they don't deserve to live on the planet with the rest of humanity?
What should or should qualify for the death penalty?
What means should the death penalty take for those who are 'pro-death penalty'?
What should qualify as for the death penalty?
The death penalty originates from the scriptures. So, a just judge like God is the one who established it.

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900)
For the wages (payment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This same warning was given to Adam and he died for disobeying God's commandment.

Genesis 2:17 (KJV 1900)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

However, our judicial system is nothing like God's. By our standards, our system is much more lenient than God's. Our punishments are meted by the degree of the offence and this also comes from the scriptures.

Luke 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The death penalty, particularly in our system, is executed upon people who have taken life themselves. And this also comes from the scriptures.

Genesis 9:6 (KJV 1900)
Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Each judicial system around the world differs in the execution of the death penalty. But the principle is the same, life for life. But like I mentioned earlier, God's judicial system sets the bar far higher in that any sin is paid by death. And this is the central focus of the gospel.
Reviewing old convictions (UK) that led to execution, researchers are finding more and more cases where the convicted were innocent.
It might be a good idea to stop killing innocents, and therefore life imprisonment has to be the correct sentence, because we keep getting it wrong.

You quote the Old Testament, Paul's ideas and Luke's support for cruel leaders....... meh.....

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Re: Death penalty

Post #8

Post by Purple Knight »

Witch has a good point. As long as we can imprison people, we should. But if we can no longer afford to, if enough people become criminals that it becomes a choice between spending that money to save a poor person in the street who has done no wrong, and to support the life of somebody who took several, I think the choice is clear.

Oldbadger has a point too; you can't undo the death penalty. Now, even if you have prisoners do hard labour to support the costs of their imprisonment, you can just pay them back if it turns out they didn't do it. But the death penalty is something you cannot undo.

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Re: Death penalty

Post #9

Post by oldbadger »

Purple Knight wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:16 pm Witch has a good point. As long as we can imprison people, we should. But if we can no longer afford to, if enough people become criminals that it becomes a choice between spending that money to save a poor person in the street who has done no wrong, and to support the life of somebody who took several, I think the choice is clear.

Oldbadger has a point too; you can't undo the death penalty. Now, even if you have prisoners do hard labour to support the costs of their imprisonment, you can just pay them back if it turns out they didn't do it. But the death penalty is something you cannot undo.
Absolutely! Any prisoners can have jobs which might even pay them so that they can improve their circumstances, and Capital offenders can carry out much less desirable duties. I don't know about now but French convicts could take jobs to pay a small allowance........

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